Tribe.net. Local Connections Nancy http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#ecb34a99-ea24-40d5-a960-85b3d63bddfd 2009-07-15T12:47:46Z 2009-07-15T12:47:46Z

Saying that I "don't bother" to mention Egyptian dancer's contributions might be a bit presumptive. Classes offer more opportunity to give history than a Tribe.net post does, y'know. But you are right, I certainly offer much more by way of the growth of Bellydance in the US. There are lots and lots of great dancers who deserve mention and I *do* include several in my "for further study" info for students but how to fit them all in?

Nancy 2009-07-15T12:47:46Z Shira http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#9654d803-b0fa-4cf3-8742-a04602bcba52 2009-07-14T20:33:23Z 2009-07-14T20:33:23Z

I find it interesting that you have opted to go into the whole Jamila-Masha-etc lineage, and yet you don't bother mentioning the names of the great Egyptian dancers whose efforts brought belly dancing from the streets into the nightclubs. What about Tahia Carioca and Samia Gamal? Surely they have had a much more profound influence on our dance form than Masha Archer....

Shira 2009-07-14T20:33:23Z Lara http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#a194fe1f-6b67-44d9-b95d-c11633d5528e 2009-07-10T18:40:12Z 2009-07-10T18:40:12Z

I think you've got it when you say you give credit as you teach. Mentioning that this move or technique or combination was learned from X or is used a lot in Y style, it gives those who are interested a chance to research who/what you are talking about. I LOVE it when workshop instructors mention little things like that, it helps direct my own studies. Since it is mentioned as you go along, it does not necessarily detract from what you are teaching for those who are not interested in pursuing that info at this time. What I say in class will most likely be mentioned more than once, and I include a list of influential dancers and musicians in my beginning-of-class hand-out to make it easier for students to research if they want to. I am generally surprised by who decides to look it up and who decides not to- every group, every person is different. Every once in a while, when a concept really needs to be explained, we take about 5 minutes to discuss it. I try to do this at the beginning or end of class, so we aren't sitting around jabbering while our bodies cool off, but I'm a big believer in 'teachable moments' too, so mid class explanations do happen occasionally. I try to keep it to a minimum. I remember taking copious notes during class when I was first learning, and it kind of bothers me that not one of my students ever does, even if I specifically provide paper, pencil & time, not even choreography notes, but they seem to get it anyway.

Lara 2009-07-10T18:40:12Z Alyssum http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#3d6cbf18-5c32-4ce1-ac87-4e817b0053d1 2009-07-09T02:07:11Z 2009-07-09T02:07:11Z

I often offered video watching/discussing ethics/other dance forms/other amazing dancers at the end of class for 5-10 mins. Sometimes I started it during class, sometimes afterward, but it was a nice way to allow people to partake or not as they had the interest/time to do so.

Alyssum 2009-07-09T02:07:11Z Bo http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#e470892d-0cfa-48f0-bffd-5809ba708058 2009-06-23T21:16:44Z 2009-06-23T21:16:44Z

Hm, Tribe ate my words when I tried to edit this: "I referenced Mira Betz in class last week and *one student* hadn't heard of her, and wasn't too shy to say so."

Bo 2009-06-23T21:16:44Z Bo http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#cd93fba3-02fb-4e75-a162-fe747dd95a2b 2009-06-23T21:15:07Z 2009-06-23T21:15:07Z

I try to do the same sort of thing with dance that I do when I tutor academic subjects: I toss in trivia. Instead of giving a whole lecture about ATS leading to Tribal Fusion, I will say something like "this basic Arabic that we're doing is a really standard American Tribal Style move, and that's why this is called tribal fusion, so when you next see ATS watch for this move!" It gives people a window onto the tie-in, and it also makes them want to go see what I'm talking about - at least, I hope it does. I try to highlight moves that happen one way in tribal styles and another way in cabaret styles, so that students understand there's a difference even if they never get any more info than that. I find that students also ask a lot, or they'll ask things that allow me to give out a bit more information. I have a course hand-out (aka syllabus, another crossover from academia) with my guidelines and also a blurb about what style they're learning - which includes info on what it isn't, and what it came from. It takes about six lines to succinctly place "fusion bellydance" into some sort of reasonable context that I'm comfortable with and that I feel gives people a jumping-off point to learn more on their own and ask more of me as a teacher. As for giving credit, I certainly do when it is appropriate. I feel it is important to share other people's insights, especially if they said something that really impacted me. I consider it the same as quoting in an academic paper - it's best to use your own words, but there are times when someone else has said it so perfectly that you can't put it any better yourself. I don't drop a name every single class, but I do say it, and to me that gives students another hook to catch on to and investigate other dancers. I referenced Mira Betz in class last week and hadn't heard of her, and wasn't too shy to say so. I told her that it was about time she went to look her up, not in any admonishing way but with an effort to share my own excitement at what a great performer and teacher Mira is. I hope my enthusiasm for these dancers rubs off on my students and prompts them to go waste hours on YouTube soaking up the magic! More often than moves, I utilize conditioning exercises that I have learned in workshops, and those I definitely credit because some of them never would have occurred to me on my own. I also try to be really clear about fusion. If we are learning a jazz walk, I say so - "This is straight up jazz right here, fusing in to our bellydance." Then if they are confused about which part is which, they can ask and get the more in-depth talk. But it really is the same rule that I give my tutoring students: No ask-y, no get-y. Teachers cannot be expected to read your mind and fill in 100% of the blanks like magic. On some level, students have to be taking responsibility for being aware when names like "Jill Parker" fly by and they register that they don't know who that is. The ball is in their court to say "Who?" or to go Google it. I have seen time and again with the students that I tutor: students who take any level of responsibility for their learning in this fashion do far better than those who don't. And some just won't, they don't want to, and that's got to be OK in the end because you can't take responsibility for the world. That was kind of rambling, and I hope it made sense for the most part. The above is just my opinion, obviously, but it is an opinion formed after a lot of work with college students trying to learn science (everyone's favorite subject) and I have found that a lot of it applies to dance, too. Catch their ear, make it fun, and encourage questions. To be completely honest, I would say that about 75% of what I know about the history and evolution of various bellydance styles has come from me doing my own research (that includes asking questions of other dancers and teachers) after hearing things fly by me at festivals, in class, in workshops, and in various on-line/off-line conversations.

Bo 2009-06-23T21:15:07Z Delia http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#86eed7a4-ff16-4b4f-abd6-0dc9cd49fc83 2009-06-23T21:14:43Z 2009-06-23T21:14:43Z

I took a workshop with a well known teacher once (she falls into the "Empress" category). She spent SOOO much time explaining the history and lineage of each and every move and combo. Even tho I knew exactly who she was talking about it was too much, it felt like a big waste of my time. I think you CAN be too careful!

Delia 2009-06-23T21:14:43Z Zafira http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#d7aadb2a-efc6-447c-957c-80b04439a387 2009-06-23T19:19:30Z 2009-06-23T19:19:30Z

Hi Nancy! I know what ya' mean!! My students give me that "whatever" look when I tell them about where a move originated from. I do have video parties like someone else suggested and the ones who are interested (very few) show up. And I always have something for them to drink at these parties!!! LOL ~Zafira

Zafira 2009-06-23T19:19:30Z Field http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#c7475680-6797-45d7-b3d1-d91bcb917d0e 2009-06-23T17:52:36Z 2009-06-23T17:52:36Z

You could always offer a fun evening of pot luck and video clip watching. Anyone who is truly interested in the history and lineage will show up and the details can be shared over humus and wine!

Field 2009-06-23T17:52:36Z GibsonPearl http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#b91504e0-7baa-42e2-b3e4-9aa7dab667ca 2009-06-23T17:03:43Z 2009-06-23T17:03:43Z

Agreed with Aubre...when I teach something I either learned directly from someone or is in what I consider their style, I will say where I got it but not worry so much about whether people know who I'm referring to or not. That way if they're interested, they will probably ask me about it later and I can point them in the right direction. As for the history, how about having a handout available with a short history or lineage of the dance? Fat Chance has something like this in their studio, and even though I knew the history I still picked one up and took it home just to have it around. That way if they're into it, they can have it and will also have a starting point if they choose to do some research...if they're not, no worries.

GibsonPearl 2009-06-23T17:03:43Z Aubre http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#baa74263-4bd2-419a-9b1c-971dca76208c 2009-06-23T15:23:34Z 2009-06-23T15:23:34Z

As long as you keep them moving, they can take or leave information as they want. But at least you will be planting the seeds for later investigation. =)

Aubre 2009-06-23T15:23:34Z Nancy http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/eaf57fbb-2bb0-4880-94d8-bfe8bc75070e#5cb74ffa-79a0-4eba-b22c-681c7a185d64 2009-06-23T14:16:48Z 2009-06-23T14:16:48Z

Spinning off from the "Other Teachers' material" topic, how much credit and dance history should we give as we teach (class or workshop)? 'Round these parts, the majority of students in my classes and workshops are new to bellydance, do not have a sense of its history, and frankly get glazed eyes when I go into all the Jamila-Masha-Carolena/Jamila-Suhaila Format/ Egyptian-Cabaret-Tribal-ATS-Fusion (and try to fit tAisha Ali and the Great Cabaret-Tribal Schism in there too) Honestly, they just wanna learn some moves and go on with their life. So, my roots are tribal, heavy on the ATS, but I also utilize a lot of Suhaila's technique because, well, it's solid. I give credit as I teach, or at least I try to, and I teach combos from "Big Name" dancers I've learned from. But I'll tell you, when I say "this is from Jill Parker" I get a room full of blank stares. And Gods, have you ever tried to explain how and why ATS and Jamila/Suhaila Basic Egyptians are different? Sheesh! Where is the line between giving appropriate credits/dance history and turning students off? How do you find it and walk it?

Nancy 2009-06-23T14:16:48Z