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Does anyone bring their own "stage floor" lights to certain gigs? Like the ones that add warm hues to a performance? If so what kind do you have?
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 9:51 AMOh! Great question!
I would be interested in knowing of solutions for lighting too. We are hosting an evening show at a venue (a large hall - a shiners temple to be precise) without fixed stage lighting. I am not sure I want full fledged stage lighting, but we do need some kind of lighting so people can see the performers (unless we keep all the lights on in the room, which is one solution!) -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 10:31 AMIf you just need them for that one show, you could probably rent them. Look for theatrical supply shops near you.
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 12:06 PMSometimes when at a gig the lighting can be too bright. When dancing with candles it can be tricky since in some venues the lights can either be turned off or on, no in between. It would be great to have some portable soft colored floor lights that could be used to provide atmosphere. -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 12:47 PM>Sometimes when at a gig the lighting can be too bright
I gotta disagree. Since the human eye can operate perfectly in open sunlight and no amount of theatrical lighting can equal open sunlight, it follows that no stage can be lit "too brightly". The opposite is all-too-often true, especially when dancers are trying to achieve a dark mood by wildly underlighting the stage. This only results in the audience's iris' being forced wide open and detail, such as color and expression, being lost in the process, which is a complete waste of a dancer's investment in costume, make up, and even motion. The concept of "dark" is best created on-stage through contrast with light. The area next to a bright light always appears darkest to an audience. Without adequate light, you have neither light nor dark, just murk. Paradoxically, the darker effect you want to create, the more light you need to create contrast with. Perhaps the best case that can be made for the idea of "too bright" is stages where the lighting is neither controlled nor aimed, just flooded all over the stage and, in worst cases, the audience. -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 1:10 PMBrad ... I couldn't have said it better .
But I am going to add a tad here ...
CHOICE of lighting color is almost as important as amount of light ...
Yellow light looks good on no one especially a fair blond (unless you are going for the look of jaundice ... then it is ok)
red light looks cool ... but if you are wearing darker costumes ... they tend to get lost.
I was at a performance recently that a performer chose all blue lighting ... DARK blue. She could not be seen at the back of the house.
Please please do not underlight... it is not moody... it is just dark.
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 2:09 PM
I do think we need for our events, and it sounds like the OP wants light too. I have found that more often than not, lighting is too dark at haflas I have attended (unless they were daytime with bright sunlight streaming into the community center). For me, this is a student level type of Hafla, so have theatrical lighting would be overkill.
So, does anyone have some solutions for those of use who wish to use lights, but have to make the solutions portable? Something besides renting theatrical lights for every performance? Would a photographers lights positions on each side of the stage, and on center stage (on the ground) be enough? and would I use white lights, or colored lights? -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 2:50 PMI don't have a "cheap" solution... but a bank of 4 par56 lights cost about 150 and a couple banks of those could make a world of difference in some venues
I am not use that "photographers lights" aka photofloods are what you want for stage lighting.
I wouldn't mind it though :) but the audience may not care fro them too much -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 3:10 PMAh, I think that is what I am looking for thank you.
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Re: Lighting
Sat, January 12, 2008 - 10:42 AMColored lights, definitely. I used a stand of yellow work lights (something like this: www.unbeatablesale.com/aps054.html but taller) with theatrical lighting gels over. The colors we used were a pale peach, a darker pink, pale blue, and a dark blue. In combination, these colors really made the costumes pop and the skin tones look good, and by turning the colors on and off, the light tech could vary the mood for each piece. We had supplementary overhead white light on a dimmer to brighten everything up as necessary. You can see the results here:
www.melissasdance.com/ByOurHa...otos.htm
Little clip-on photo floods with colored gels would probably work just fine-- talk to your local theatrical supply shop (or email your online shop if there's nothing local) and ask for color suggestions.
Hope this helps! Because NOTHING makes a show look professional like good lighting!
Melissa V.
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 6:56 PMI heartily agree with Brad and also Nomad here.
I have seen many stage lighting setups for belly dance, and very few of high quality. I have learned how to pluck gems out of rough lighting, which is unfortunately rather routine. I also would like to applaud the efforts of Brad and other SF/BA photographers I know who have been working to provide belly dance producers with more knowledge and general awareness about about stage lighting.
Yellow gels are at live shows are uniformly terrible, in my opinion. At an Ansuya gig once, I was able to successfully tune out most of this misapplied light in-camera, but really every belly dancer appeared jaundiced as they danced, it was quite unflattering.
Blessings and Light,
M
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Re: Lighting
Tue, February 5, 2008 - 5:46 AMActually, I've found that certain yellowish toned lights do look good on my skin tone. Perhaps because I'm half Asian?
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 2:39 PMSorry I meant to say the light can be too harsh not bright.
I danced at this one gig where there was enough light but they used some kind of floor lights that had color. The result was wonderful and it really showed up on film. That is the kind of portable light I am looking for. -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 3:34 PMThe issue with footlights is that they point up and can create unflattering shadows. The effect can certainly work to dramatic effect (such as Unmata's debut of the pony piece at last year's Nouveau Nights www.taboomedia.smugmug.com/gall...P-7-9 ) but many find the resulting pig noses, rounded cheeks, darkened eyes undesirable. And rounder bellies are also very accented by floor positions.
Perhaps a better budget alternative might be a photo kit such as the $129 Smith Victor KT1000 ( www.adorama.com/SVKT1000U.html ), which includes two 500-watt bulbs, pro lamps with 12-inch reflectors, and two 8-foot stands that can be set up to flank the stage. (It also includes photo umbrellas, but you wouldn't want to use those on stage due to light loss). This should serve you for stages 10-12 feet wide but the dark spot in the middle of the stage would get pretty bad if you went much further. A solution to that might be shelling out $40 more for the three-light KT1500 ( www.adorama.com/SVKT1500U.html ) and setting the third instrument overhead mid-stage (preferable, if an option) or mid-stage on the floor, if needed. Bulbs are less than $5 a pop.
Defintely avoid chintzy DJ lighting set-ups. They are intended as decoration, not to provide area lighting.
Finally, you'll want to invest in professional theatrical gels (which shouldn't catch fire next to 500-watt bulbs, unless you leave them running overnight). Naked bulbs make for ugly light. For more neutral set-ups, go with pale blue on one side of the stage and pale pink on the other side (and use a pale straw color for the middle, if you're doing the three light set up). If you are going the three-light route, consider more dramatic set ups using intense warm and cool colors for the flanking lights ( www.taboomedia.smugmug.com/gall...38144 ) but avoid gels that are so dark that you lose too much light. If, for some reason, you are compelled to use yellow or red lights, please use them with another color and not by themselves ( www.taboomedia.smugmug.com/gall...38117 ). -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 5:42 PMThank you Brad! These are the types of details I needed! I think we can afford a couple hundred bucks, but was afraid after some random googling (since I didn't really know what we needed) it would be thousands of dollars! -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 1:59 PMWent to our venue today to drop off the rental fee, and it turns out they DO HAVE lights! There is a bank of about 12-14 lights mounted in the ceiling (how did I miss that the first time through?) so I am pretty excited!
They all have blue lights (cells?) in them, and it looks like maybe a couple don't work, so I will still be looking to add some lighting from the sides and center, but I was quite delighted to see the light this morning; it totally made my day happy to start :) -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 14, 2008 - 4:19 PMThe word is gels (common mistake). Did they turn them on so you could see what the stage looks like lit? What do they usually use the venue for? I am curious because all blue is an ... interesting lighting choice!
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Re: Lighting
Fri, February 1, 2008 - 8:29 AMDave,
This is the bank of lights available at our venue:
people.tribe.net/altaira/p...85e9527dbb
Photo taken with very small digital camera, sorry for the darkness. All the gels are blue. Guess I have to get some floodlights! -
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Re: Lighting
Fri, February 1, 2008 - 11:13 AMWhile it's difficult to be certain from the photo, it appears that those lighting fixtures are not gelled. Instead, they seem to be fitted with decorative blue outdoor floodlamps. These bulbs are usually designed to spread light (so it's odd to use them in a forward position) but you should get even lighting, although you'll want to aim them all at the stage. My advice would be to purchase six white flood bulbs and replace the blue ones in the center, allowing the blue lights on the edges to act as sorta faux wing lights. (This will also provide a lot more light, given that color darkens the bulbs.) If you want to get crafty, you could try to find reb bulbs to replace the blues on one side (and just one side) and create a warm/cool effect. These bulbs tend to run around $5-$10 (depending on where you get 'em, so it should be worth the investment. -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, February 4, 2008 - 1:49 PMAfter much of your external advice and lots of internal debate, we ended up renting a 'simple light kit' for our show. And it made a WORLD of difference!
Price was approx $140 for a day and a half rental ( I needed to pick up the day before since I was not sure I could get out of the workshops to go pick up, otherwise they would have been approx $90 for a day). this kit came with 2 'trees' that each held 4 lights. We went for 'no color' since we just wanted light added to the stage (and would not have anyone 'running lights'). After some minor stress trying to set them up and not fully understanding how it all worked, plus being exhausted from teaching right before the show, I was about to have a small panic attack because I could not get them to come on, someone was called in to assist us and he showed me how to set up (the master switch was up all the way, but plugging the four light cords into the 'box helped a lot, something that was not explained to me and not obvious because of how the cords were wrapped!)
This thread was chock full of info, and really helped me make this decision. Thanks for all the help!
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 8:27 PMThank for the great advice and links, Brad! I've been wanting to learn some basic elements of lighting. Very helpful.
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 8:41 PMProblem is that the SV floods are going to have a harsh appearance to the audence ... and frankly will only work well on smaller stages.
The Par 56 Cans are "theatrical stage lighting" and would likely give better results as well as being easier to gel.
I do agree with Brad ... stay away from the 99 buck DJ sets ... they are not going to hold up well...
You do want to ensure that you get stands that are sturdy and tall enough to do the job for you -
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Re: Lighting
Mon, January 7, 2008 - 10:53 PMAgreed, Nomad... Real stage lighting gear will deliver a better quality of light, but cost can be an issue. After you add up instruments, specialized bulbs, cabling, and rigging even a simple Par Can system can add up to a significant dollar investment and even bigger set-up/strip-down on showday. And remember, most Par Cans have no real lens (sometimes just a honeycomb) so they're really not that much better than simple floods (which can also be fitted with honeycombs).
Really, it's venues that should be investing in basic stage lighting, complete with fresneled area lights and long-throw ellipses from rear positions.
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Thanks
Tue, January 8, 2008 - 3:40 PMThis is so cool, I've wasted time and money trying this-and-that.
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Re: Lighting .. the down low
Mon, February 2, 2009 - 12:39 PMHey Brad et-al,
Great posts. I'm not natively a lighting guy, but since I do video work for stage performance I've hung around with some super-talented lighting folks.
I think your point about low light is spot-on (er.. pun intended). Next time you're watching a movie which has a "night scene", notice the blue lighting that you'll probably see... often, they'll film a night scene with MUCHO light, then just darken it in post (editing)... bottom line is, we need light to see! :-) This is an awesome thread...
I was shooting at a festival back in September where an hour before the show they turned to me on video and said "is this enough light for your cameras?" My response: "my cameras can see just fine, but the AUDIENCE won't be able to see the dancers' faces since it's all top-lighting!" (it was also all flourescent lighting.. ugh). We had two options as I saw it:
(1) turn on all the house lights to illuminate the dancers' fronts (faces, costume, etc) OR
(2) get supplimental lighting PRONTO
They ended up getting work-lights.. you know, the kind that sit on poles, two-up, for working late at night, one set flanking each side of the stage pointed towards the center. Guess what.. it worked WONDERS in helping out. Nothing theatrical -- no colors -- but it cast some neat shadows on the walls, and most importantly people could see the dancers!
Another neat setup I've seen is with a strip of color LED lights running along the back of a stage (which had a curtain). This up-lighting wouldn't do diddlysquat for performer illumination, but had an infinite number of combinations to create beautiful backdrop lighting and moods... not sure how much they cost, but I'll bet they can be pretty portable and could dress up the plainest of stages! -
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Re: Lighting .. the down low
Mon, February 2, 2009 - 1:00 PMHey Red,
"They ended up getting work-lights.. you know, the kind that sit on poles, two-up, for working late at night, one set flanking each side of the stage pointed towards the center. Guess what.. it worked WONDERS in helping out. Nothing theatrical -- no colors -- but it cast some neat shadows on the walls, and most importantly people could see the dancers!"
This situation is so common (in the cases where folks can be convinced to provide any sort of illumination) that I've actually taken to traveling with rolls of cool and warm theatrical gels in the trunk of my car (along with a roll of gaffers tape, a utility knife, and a crescent wrench). This little kit has seen action at both small and big-name events since and has paid off in better images (and better shows for audiences) many times over. I'm a little sad that it comes to this, but I'm much happier when I see the results. -
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Re: Lighting .. don't rely on the venue!
Mon, February 2, 2009 - 1:16 PMI think you've been doing this a bit longer than I, as I've only just come to the realization that I need to have some lighting gear as part of my kit... oh yeah.. and spare radios/COM LOL... at that same event, the organizers forgot their radios so I donated mine to the event :-)
It's not just dancers though.. I've done some corporate shoots for live speaker events where the venue is a hotel, and inevitably has the worst possible lighting:
- florescent lights overhead, spaced so that if the speaker walks around, (s)he goes dark/light/dark/light
- an incandescent light at a podium blasting tons of warm/5600K? light right in front of their face (but not on it), also blocking their face
- a sound system throughout such that if a speaker roams with a wireless if feeds back horribly
- then there's the "projector" for presentations which casts totally different temperature!
Many of the "large dance festivals" I've been to also seem to rely on venue stage lighting just because there's an existing stage, and I've found pretty standard that one part of the stage (e.g. the back) is brightly lit, and another part (e.g. the front) is very dark. I watch for this early on when shooting the video and will actually adjust the iris real-time as dancers move up and downstage (also depending on the performer's skin color/tone, which sometimes reflects the light different).
It makes for a fun shoot... and see, not only the dancers get to stay on your toes, eh :-) ?
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Re: Lighting .. the down low
Tue, February 3, 2009 - 8:19 PMTribal Fest has Brad to thank for last year coming in early and readjusting and geling the venue stage lights.... he puts his shit to work!!! Mahalo... Gee I hope they are still there for this year! When ya getting there? LOL
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Re: Lighting
Fri, January 30, 2009 - 7:40 AMWe need to light up an audience-level performance area (no stage yet) in our studio during occasional events. Based on the info in this thread, I am thinking of following Brad's advice and purchasing a Smith Victor 3- light lighting kit. Did I misunderstand the info in the thread or is this still a good choice? Unfortunately, the construction manager installed the (supposed to be) overhead spots for the performance area over an exit instead. So, how does one raise that back light higher than 6' safely?
PS: More info than I can understand but the pictures are very clear:
www.northern.edu/wild/litedes/dance.htm
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Smith Victor experiment
Mon, March 16, 2009 - 9:45 AMI have ordered Brad's suggested 3-light Smith Victor solution and will buy gels. We attempted to anticpate lighting problems for studio concerts during studio construction but the contractor installed them in the wrong place... over an exit ... kinda funny, actually. -
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Re: Smith Victor experiment
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 9:03 PMWe tested the lighting today. The girls are very pleased. I don't know if we have time to go get gels, but at least we'll have lots of light. The cords are a potential hazard but I believe we are going to loop them over a pipe near the ceiling and then over to and down the wall to the outlet. -
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Re: Smith Victor experiment
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 9:41 AMThe lighting was effective but too stark. We really need to get some gels. Also, the design of the stands is not a good fit with the look of the studio itself, but we think a backdrop might mitigate that. -
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Re: Smith Victor experiment
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 12:56 PMPost photos to this tribe's gallery so we can see the process better, OK? -
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Pole lamps...
Sun, May 31, 2009 - 8:06 AMI didn't take pix at the first event, and since then daughter decided to revert back to 'normal' pole lamps to provide side lighting because the photographic ones generate a lot of heat. If someone has a suggestion about cooler lightbulbs then I'll see if she'll try them at the next event and then I can get pix.
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