Tribe.net. Local Connections Mahsati http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#a717d8a7-9114-48de-9d16-d0bf40546023 2009-07-05T14:51:02Z 2009-07-05T14:51:02Z

I think the issues here come down a lot to copyright and permission. No one needs permission to teach a specific move b/c individual moves can not be copyrighted. However, a combination taught in a workshop is copyrighted, especially if they provided written notes. A different dancer who came up with the same moves on their own would not be in breach on copyright, but someone who took the workshops and then began re-teaching them without permission would be. If this instructor had the permission to teach these combinations in a workshop format, then that is fine - I still find it odd, but it is fine. If the instructor did not have permission, then they are edging on copyright violations and it likely unethical. In my mind this is a lot different from what two other posters wrote earlier about dancers who didn't market themselves as well. It doesn't sound like anyone stole their copyrighted materials - just that someone was doing the same things separately and became more well-known and popular for it. I think that being great at something as yourself and having great marketing is a positive thing. Stealing or using someone else's lesson plans or combinations/choreographies without permission is a negative thing to me.

Mahsati 2009-07-05T14:51:02Z Velvet Fifi http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#4c9bd2b9-6d3b-430f-8d12-c3e86f50c052 2009-06-28T12:58:25Z 2009-06-28T12:58:25Z

Exactly. when I take a workshop, I am there to learn from someone who has their own interpretation of moves, technique, and combos... I want them to be an "expert" who has taken the time to work out in their own mind and body how they got to the place they are at now in their dance career. I am not there to hear someone's cobbled-together workshop of other multiple professional dancers combos thrown together. I want my dance workshops to be "chewy", something I can sink my teeth into because the instructor has taken the time to really apply her philosophy to her thinking, as well as done some kind of research. It's definitely good to hear "I got this move from so-and-so, but I didn't really understand it until 5 years later where the movement was really coming from - then one day it clicked" But my sticking point was a class of combos from multiple teachers, and I don't even know how much the instructor has invested in really understanding the moves/combos, etc. And this is just my personal opinion, but this is why this type of advertising turned me off.

Velvet Fifi 2009-06-28T12:58:25Z Fotia http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#ff7f848d-7508-4b24-9d1c-7c60f7663a10 2009-06-26T14:29:25Z 2009-06-26T14:29:25Z

I have mixed feelings on this. When you are taught a choreo and some new awesome moves, you paid for it to continue your own education. But then I've had teachers who have attended master classes where I would not be eligible, and also I've had teachers who attended workshops that I could not attend for one reason or another, and they used the material in their own sessions. For the ones that I missed, I considered it a perk because they always included something of their own in the classes as well. What bothers me is when a teacher uses material on an instructional DVD, as we can purchase those on our own.

Fotia 2009-06-26T14:29:25Z "Shay" http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#08bf3c3c-a386-4249-8d20-7622fe4cb737 2009-06-26T02:01:39Z 2009-06-26T02:01:39Z

Whiskey, I completely hear you. I can't say that if my workshop concepts were among the ones this person taught that I would be pleased. But neither would I expect there to be any real recourse about it. I could ask that person not to use my name in their marketing, I suppose....but beyond that I am not sure what else is to be done when people do this.

"Shay" 2009-06-26T02:01:39Z Whisky http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#ebff0e35-eaa4-4f28-8171-6906fdaaeea7 2009-06-26T01:14:35Z 2009-06-26T01:14:35Z

about the glute shimmy- what many dancers refer to as a shimmy is what suhaila would actualy call 3/4 quarter hips, up, alternating, down beat on the right, half time(i think- i'm not good at that part) or single hips, down beat on the right, double time(and it is understood that in her format you are using your glutes for your hip work). what she calls the "glute shimmy" is closer to what many of us may call a vibration.- that's just HER particular format. the ATS or "tribal fusion"(ats/its foundation fused with other elements) shimmy isn't even considered a "shimmy" by suhalia. so while Jamilla may utilize glutes for her hip work, its not THE suhalia glute shimmy. Many(but not all) contemporary belly dancers(of the tribal influence) utilize glute contractions and releases to create a defined movement- i think the fun is in being able to do both for a different style and larger vocabulary in your dance repetore... OK SO BACK TO THE TOPIC... one of the reasons that i think this rubs me the wrong way is that many of us work very hard to create new combos and material that while they may be made from the same basic movement vocabulary, we have imparted something of ourselves in to it. (i mean a cover band may rock but usually it's just not quite the same is it?) it takes time to create new material so that you have something new to offer folks- and if you're teaching a workshop hopefully it's because you have something unique(or at least a unique take on it)to offer. i think it always helps to think of other dance forms or movement practices or forms of entertainment... so - let's take yoga- Bikram teachers and studios offer the same routine(material)- BUT- each instructor is certified to make sure that it is the way it's "suppoosed" to be, each instructor has to give(time and $$) to bikram and as a student you know that where ever you take a bikram class its standardized- sounds kinda like ATS yeah? many times you have similar sequences at studios who don't want to follow the 26 postures, etc- called "hot yoga"- kinda like ITS then as you study other styles you find different approaches- each iengar instructor is trained in his approach but will create their own sequences, and approach- students(if not confined by schedule) will find a teacher to practice with because of what he or she imparts to the practice. i guess that we are a nation of fierce individualists and like to feel that we have something special to offer- when someone who has taken a workshop or two(it didn't even say studied with) feels that they can replicate and teach your particular nuances- it just feels crappy. makes ya just kinda want to say "really?... you are teaching a workshop at a large event and you can't even come up with material that's compelling enough on your own"????? hmmmm...

Whisky 2009-06-26T01:14:35Z Afsana http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#15e33f96-64fe-4b82-a339-ee29407fe55f 2009-06-23T22:59:36Z 2009-06-23T22:59:36Z

"perhaps they didn't see it as a marketing ploy so much as a way to be honest and up front about what material would be in the workshop?" That´s a necessity today, cause otherwise there´s always someone that would accuse you of using XY´s combos without acknowledging it. I don´t see how this would help advertising.

Afsana 2009-06-23T22:59:36Z Anne Marie (AM) http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#4b4a3bcd-c551-44e5-a34c-b6389848a7c7 2009-06-23T12:05:50Z 2009-06-23T12:05:50Z

Nodding and understanding...completely. Not passing any judgement on how that *tension* is applied to the hip and who gets to make that claim of application for the whole world of Tribal Fusion...past or present. Just calling it like I'm seeing it. Which is why though...( bringing this full circle...or at least attempting to) without extensive training, no one should be teaching anyone's specific work, because its just that...specific, with specific methods and application that can't be learned in one workshop or even a few classes. How can methods, application, preference and the history behind the creation along with influences be passed on properly? Huge difference between teaching a genre and an individual's work...and...huge difference between showing something learned to your classroom and teaching a major workshop of it for a general audience...at a festival no less. Not to mention...the highlights???? Geez...

Anne Marie (AM) 2009-06-23T12:05:50Z GibsonPearl http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#eaf075c0-4677-464f-9774-e8e2a25c247b 2009-06-23T07:27:42Z 2009-06-23T07:27:42Z

<then I have to say that the current wave of Fusion is a breed all its own> Which is why even though my roots are fully in tribal fusion (started with Jill Parker in 2000, after she shed the turbans but before the lead and follow was slowly phased out of most of what we did) I now call myself a fusion bellydancer. It's just easier...and is more indicative of what I actually do, in my opinion.

GibsonPearl 2009-06-23T07:27:42Z Anne Marie (AM) http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#6c5723b9-51b3-4360-96b9-42134ead0a72 2009-06-23T04:24:06Z 2009-06-23T04:24:06Z

Shay: [This comment is really really interesting to me. What is Tribal Fusion if not a fusion of tribal ATS skills and aesthetics with other elements? How can you say ATS and Tribal Fusion are at all disconnected? ] You know this better than me that the current presentation of much Tribal Fusion is so far from the initial form that many of the basic elements have been lost. Which I know is a bone of contention. I would never say they are disconnected. What I said was that ATS is not Tribal Fusion...its Tribal. As far as Tribal Fusion...I know your feelings on this and I agree about the terminology but we are becoming more and more in the minority. What is seen on the stages and done in Tribal Fusion workshops is a def not any type of ITA or TGI format. Every once in awhile someone will show a hand floreo or a modified versdion of the ATS Egyptian but that's as close as I have seen it get. Based on this.... [The glute stuff is Suhaila technique, which is not tribal in any form. It can be taken and used in any way one wishes, but it is not innately tribal in any way. Quite the opposite being that ATS emphasizes NOT tensing, but instead loose and natural movements to create shimmies] I have to disagree...which will probably be the first time ever but....Tribal came from Jamila, Carolena may have been the first to be referred to it but anyone who has studied Bal Anat can cleary see the origins and presentation in many of the movements including the names of some of the movements which are still used. . Suhaila has developed her own format over time but not lost many of the elements...rather refined them. Yes...she may have brought forth this shimmy but I have never seen this 'not' utilized in any Tribal workshop or classroom I have entered or any videos I purchased that were *non ITS* Tribal. Not to say every fusion dancer uses it ( and I have done every class and own every video) but it is so prevalent that I feel it to be an essential part . I do want to clarify that the specific shimmies used in the Suhaila format are not per say ones that all Tribal Fusion dancers use, rather the specific method of using the glute muscles to produce a shimmy whether it be a 3/4 or some other type. In truth Shay...unless we want to think up a new name for Tribal ladies and troupes who utilize no ATS/ITS whatsoever ( and I know you probably have a few suggestions...LOL) then I have to say that the current wave of Fusion is a breed all its own and using the glutes is as fundamental as cueing is to ATS. [This is what a lot of teachers teach, but without putting it all in the description.] True...very true! [But to play devil's advocate, perhaps they didn't see it as a marketing ploy so much as a way to be honest and up front about what material would be in the workshop? Who can know for sure] A tip off would be the FAQ page...take a peek. ;) ( incidentally...I am sure the Insturctor is a lovely person...I'm thinking this is a promoter issue)

Anne Marie (AM) 2009-06-23T04:24:06Z "Shay" http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#d42cedad-38c9-46d0-a5fa-e12b4463dfd3 2009-06-22T20:03:04Z 2009-06-22T20:03:04Z

My reaction? This is what a lot of teachers teach, but without putting it all in the description. There are a couple videos out there right now from well-respected dancers who have taken combos from other dancers and put it together into a choreography. In the video they very clearly state "this combo we got from so-and-so", and "this combo we got from blahblahblah". They put it all together into a unique package, to different music, and were honest about their influences. That didn't bother me in the least. And yet, if all over their video packaging they had used the names of the dancers they took the combos from, it would seem a desperate marketing ploy. So I guess for me, it doesn't bother me that they are doing it so much as the way they are going about it. But to play devil's advocate, perhaps they didn't see it as a marketing ploy so much as a way to be honest and up front about what material would be in the workshop? Who can know for sure!

"Shay" 2009-06-22T20:03:04Z "Shay" http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#0225b08e-d720-450e-a66e-d7ba9cbdc79b 2009-06-22T19:57:15Z 2009-06-22T19:57:15Z

"I won't define Tribal Fusion nor get into a who is and who isn't debate...in my personal experience I've yet to see anything but utilization of the glutes...and yes, I was referring to the shimmies. If we are talking ATS though...its a whole other ball game. ATS is def NOT Tribal fusion in my book..its Tribal" This comment is really really interesting to me. What is Tribal Fusion if not a fusion of tribal ATS skills and aesthetics with other elements? How can you say ATS and Tribal Fusion are at all disconnected? The glute stuff is Suhaila technique, which is not tribal in any form. It can be taken and used in any way one wishes, but it is not innately tribal in any way. Quite the opposite being that ATS emphasizes NOT tensing, but instead loose and natural movements to create shimmies.

"Shay" 2009-06-22T19:57:15Z Afsana http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#52fabef6-11b7-4afc-91da-baecd2acb6c4 2009-06-22T19:55:17Z 2009-06-22T19:55:17Z

advertising? what are you talking about? yes, there might be teachers who teach cause of money and only money, but hopefully most teachers teach because they love it and want to pass the knowledge and fun. For example I decided to do a short combos based on best tribal fusion dancers this summer, because I think it´ll be fun and I want the others to touch upon the different stylizations too. But this is summer and not the only course too. I probably wouldn´t do it over the year.

Afsana 2009-06-22T19:55:17Z Jennifer http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#31ce4583-aabd-479c-a9a7-243e72b6ca76 2009-06-22T16:30:34Z 2009-06-22T16:30:34Z

Christina, yeah, the "first totally green" belly dance convention didn't sound right to me, either. My thought was that the eco movement has been around for quite some time and there was no way they could have been the first belly dancers who thought to incorporate it in a convention. It really struck me as ignorant and failing to do proper research.

Jennifer 2009-06-22T16:30:34Z Christina http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#2e7f3dda-d33a-4a70-b26a-2960f990a0e8 2009-06-22T15:29:29Z 2009-06-22T15:29:29Z

As a producer of one of the "other conventions" in the general area (and one mentioned--and misspelled--in the class description) the claim of being the ONLY one in this part of the country taught purely by today's professional performers does NOT sit well with me. In the five years of running our event I can't remember us hiring any non-professional, non-performing teachers. I'm sure the teachers we've had (you know... hacks like Domba, Zafira, Karim Nagi, Kami Liddle, Heather Stants, Artemis Mourat, Paulette Rees-Denis, Kajira Djoumahnna, etc, etc) would be equally disappointed to be devalued in this way. ... not to mention that naming those other conventions/festivals in the workshop description serves to discourage folks from coming to them. As this teacher and more than one of the festival organizers have supported our event in the past, I find it to be pretty disappointing to see advertising that basically says "don't go to that festival over there..... come to ours!!" I'm fine with "come to ours" but actually discouraging people from attending another event is not cool. Oh... and the claim to be the first green bellydance festival is bunk too. These folks should research TribOriginal. I won't even get into the idea of marketing a workshop by dropping names. Teaching a move or two and crediting the source in the workshop is fine with me, in fact I do it, but building an entire workshop on someone else's material? Really?

Christina 2009-06-22T15:29:29Z S http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#ef2651b0-15ef-44ba-ac07-498e3b1e2942 2009-06-21T23:46:45Z 2009-06-21T23:46:45Z

I do not care for the action of name dropping, but teaching the steps and making your students feel free to combine any of them in any way the choose, in my opinion, should be our goal, regardless of whether or not some other dancer has used the particular combination. I feel I have done my job if my student can combine moves freely, either spontaneously or choreographed. No, I would never teach someone else's choreography, as it is my goal to get the student to the point that they do their own. Sounds crazy, but I try to get that thought process going in beginners..... asking "what moves do you FEEL you could do to this music? Ok, let's try that!" And so on, and so forth. By the same token, I am not going to say, "dont combine those moves because they belong to so and so".

S 2009-06-21T23:46:45Z Velvet Fifi http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#c7346afb-23c2-431d-a8f3-4fb43fe26962 2009-06-21T17:43:35Z 2009-06-21T17:43:35Z

Ditto. Personally, I'm pretty turned off by this marketing ploy.

Velvet Fifi 2009-06-21T17:43:35Z Maura http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#690f02e9-3fde-4323-8331-73570cc4f4dc 2009-06-21T17:37:54Z 2009-06-21T17:37:54Z

... I'd be interested in knowing if this actually works. Using specific names in the advertising doesn't enhance my perception of the teacher as a go-to girl with a POV of her own. And mentioning the names might make folks decide they really want to go to the source, not the imitator.

Maura 2009-06-21T17:37:54Z Velvet Fifi http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#011ac808-363a-4045-b566-3e7a37a1450e 2009-06-21T12:44:47Z 2009-06-21T12:44:47Z

Anthea - your words struck me to the heart. This happened to a very good friend of mine - an incredible dancer, but who was never able to promote/ market herself the way she deserved to be, and who has finally to a large extent given up the profession she has always loved, went back to school to get into a trade, and move on. She wants to teach still, and her material will be lost if not encouraged to teach - but what a shame. (She lived and studied in Turkey multiple times, as well as was mentored by Artemis). I can't even begin to tell you what it was like to see her dance with John Bilezikjian, and see the emotions and the incredible dance (it was her dream come true to perform to his playing, btw). People gave her a standing ovation and there wasn't a dry eye in the house when she was done. Personally, she has been bad-mouthed, lied about, stolen from... her material has been videoed, ripped off, stolen, you name it, until she has been forced to almost entirely give up dance. She is one of the kindest people I have ever met, but unfortunately, the users and small-minded jealous people also figured that out, and took and took until she had nothing left to give. I just feel like telling them all "Congratulations, you've managed to destroy a beautiful person whose knowledge will now not be passed on because of your small-mindedness - happy now?" Sorry for the highjack there - but I guess you can see how I feel about people taking other's combinations and more. It's is a lot like rubbing salt into a wound. Teach dance steps - yes - no one really owns those. But once you start putting together combos and more - you have to be really careful how that is handled. this situations sounds like it stepped over the boundaries of good business etiquette for me to be comfortable with - I personally wound avoid the workshop and not do business with this woman unless she was able to prove she had gotten express permission from each and everyone of those instructors - which I bet she doesn't have.

Velvet Fifi 2009-06-21T12:44:47Z GibsonPearl http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#932f4344-dc53-4b0d-b3a5-f20265d9f581 2009-06-20T05:40:28Z 2009-06-20T05:40:28Z

<The entire dance is a combination of moves. Do you, or she, think that she is really THE first dancer to EVER put those moves together? Probably not! Now a choreography would be different.> But then it goes back to the question of what is a combo if not a short choreography? A combination of moves is by definition a choreography--or at least is one of its definitions. How do you differentiate between them? Something else to think about... Sure, most dances have been put together somehow somewhere by someone else...but then again, maybe not. No one had really ever seen anything like Martha Graham when she started her style, or breakdancing when it started showing up on streets. Dance does evolve--even bellydance. And keep in mind--choreographies can be copyrighted, which should say something about authorship and the creation of art. I found this article when trying to figure out how a court would define a "choreography"...turns out it's pretty difficult. http://www.csulb.edu/~jvancamp/copyrigh.html My issue with this whole thing is that this person is not teaching her own work, and is using other artist's names for her own gain. I don't think that's ok. I have no faith in someone who thinks she can seamlessly teach a bunch of different artists' work based on--what?--maybe one workshop that she's taken with each? Part of the reason people will pay to learn from the named dancers is because they have a proven track record of dancing and teaching. Just learning something does NOT make you a good teacher. I think that if you don't have something of your own to add, don't teach workshops.

GibsonPearl 2009-06-20T05:40:28Z S http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#dfa69056-29b9-419f-b769-5ec440f5d64a 2009-06-20T04:24:00Z 2009-06-20T04:24:00Z

Just something to think about: So, famous dancer X "comes up with" this spectacular combination move. Is it HERS? My thought is that it is not. The entire dance is a combination of moves. Do you, or she, think that she is really THE first dancer to EVER put those moves together? Probably not! Now a choreography would be different. Even with choreography, I have seen SIMILAR choreographies simultaneously be created several states away then compared with much incredulity. Much like spontaneous simultaneous inventions! Also, teaching someone's class or workshop verbatim is terrible. It would seem that would be a no brainer. A teacher wishing to impart what she learned should be able to put them in a different format.

S 2009-06-20T04:24:00Z Anne Marie (AM) http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#9c2141c3-df89-4397-91d9-1b4ad3db38d4 2009-06-19T21:11:28Z 2009-06-19T21:11:28Z

In writiings from 1978, in 'The Danse Oriental', Jamila refers to *tensing* the hips whereas the 1998 version of the Tribal Bible refers to the obliques and sassiness...LOL. I can't confirm right now ( but def. plan to give someone a phone call on this) but my understanding is that that *tension* eventually evolved in utilization of the glutes in the manner in which they are used today. I think it evolved overtime giving a crisper, locking type presentation that I do personally consider part of the essence and presentation of Tribal Fusion. Studying ATS (before the ITS/TGI concerns on the boards), there was never any distinct clarification..it wasn't mentioned...but it wasn't NOT mentioned. In fact, it was not until a recent post on Tribe that I found out there existed no utilization of these muscles. I don't even think I could stop using those muscles at this point if I tried after 7 years. I admit I teach my ITS in this manner and have always done so. I am sure I am not the only one as well which is why Carolena must enforce and clarify this cocnept and her preferences and methods in her certification progarms. I can say confidantly though in new representations of the old Bal Anat, it is used. While again, I won't define Tribal Fusion nor get into a who is and who isn't debate...in my personal experience I've yet to see anything but utilization of the glutes...and yes, I was referring to the shimmies. If we are talking ATS though...its a whole other ball game. ATS is def NOT Tribal fusion in my book..its Tribal ( I am playing semantics here but there is a method to my madness). And...I think it fair to go back to Jamila for those particular roots. Thanks G...always...for the conversations! Okay...back to the regularly scheduled program

Anne Marie (AM) 2009-06-19T21:11:28Z monique http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#1f172004-1489-442a-806d-45cbfd4d0673 2009-06-19T19:43:57Z 2009-06-19T19:43:57Z

it really depends. if someone teaches the layering drill that mira betz does a her workshops..i dont think its terrible...if they take some moves like the unmata shoulders that a lot of tribal dancers use now...its not bad...BUT.....when you are asking money to teach these ni a class format, i think that is wrong..... much of the entertain ment world dance or non dance...takes things fom other creative minds and makes it into their own....take a specific riff and down tunes it and bam its theier own, takes a specific dance move, adds one hand flourish and bam its tehir own.....thats normal and everyone does it, i see it everywhere. but you have to be careful how far you take that and when you are just being a copycat and not an artist yourself. i think fi she was selling dvd's for those specific artists and they were getting some profit from it, and advertising ok this dancer is gonna be here then and her next workshop is here etc etc...that might be ok...but its a fine line

monique 2009-06-19T19:43:57Z GibsonPearl http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#a27ff6a8-809b-4297-a328-789b3e47a3ce 2009-06-19T18:28:49Z 2009-06-19T18:28:49Z

<I'm not going to even attempt to *define* tribal fusion but I'll go out on a limb here and say with confidence that using the glutes is a fundamental concept.> Using the glutes in various moves is fundamental in all of bellydance--but they're talking about the glute shimmy specifically. I suppose it depends on the definition of tribal, but I don't believe Carolena teaches the glute shimmy as a fundamental concept if she teaches it at all, and I know for a fact that Jill Parker doesn't--or at least didn't for the six years I studied with her (2000-2006). The glute shimmy, for most tribal dancers, came from training with Suhaila Salimpour. I have noticed that some dancers, including Sharon Kihara, incorporate the glute shimmy into their workshop teaching because they studied with Suhaila and now use the technique in their own dancing. Now, we wouldn't have tribal anything without Jamila Salimpour, but Suhaila's technique is hardly ATS-based, obviously. And I don't know if the glute-shimmy concept was began by Jamila or by Suhaila. Point being that if you consider the roots of tribal fusion as starting with ATS, glute shimmies are not a fundamental concept. But if you go back to Jamila--and IF she was a proponent of the glute shimmy before her daughter was--then perhaps that's where its popularity came from.

GibsonPearl 2009-06-19T18:28:49Z Jennifer http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#ce210043-d7e5-4c4e-858a-acab7c960999 2009-06-19T17:23:55Z 2009-06-19T17:23:55Z

I think one of the websites was the "work in progress" site and the other was the official event site. They apparently didn't realize that if they didn't take the other site down, people could still google it.

Jennifer 2009-06-19T17:23:55Z Tanya http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#65d3897a-8d47-48f0-b860-c6d21f359243 2009-06-19T16:17:48Z 2009-06-19T16:17:48Z

To clarify, there are apparently two websites promoting this event. One does not mention the names or the material in the workshop in question, the other clearly states the paragraph posted by the OP.

Tanya 2009-06-19T16:17:48Z Zanubia http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#f62707d2-d340-4daa-86e4-18a07c43b7f7 2009-06-19T15:38:31Z 2009-06-19T15:38:31Z

"is the glute shimmy part of Carolena's format, too?" No it is not. She is adamant about "no glutes" in any of the movements.

Zanubia 2009-06-19T15:38:31Z Tanya http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#19e31a2f-4990-4363-a153-8a53a5913e54 2009-06-19T15:08:19Z 2009-06-19T15:08:19Z

Okay so google-fu got me to the website of the event in question. I find it very interesting that the workshop you are describing is not outlined on the site (all the others are) and none of the names dropped in the blurb appear anywhere on the site. In fact the way the workshop is described is simply Combo's 2008 (which is innocuous enough.) If nothing is wrong with the presentation, why not post it to the internet where all can see?

Tanya 2009-06-19T15:08:19Z Jennifer http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#72003fe8-1c50-4235-97a3-2bc36fc47f12 2009-06-19T14:39:10Z 2009-06-19T14:39:10Z

That one was held in the auditorium, on the stage, because it had the rigging and support structure above to hold the ropes. I didn't take that one, but some of my friends did.

Jennifer 2009-06-19T14:39:10Z Rya http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#e3cbc9f9-8243-435f-a743-81b2e3057ded 2009-06-19T12:52:38Z 2009-06-19T12:52:38Z

I really want to see how they teach that. And where they could possibly have the space for it...and all the exercise mats to line the floor.

Rya 2009-06-19T12:52:38Z Anne Marie (AM) http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#bedb8b45-0368-492e-8ee6-9906d1fa7c81 2009-06-19T12:26:08Z 2009-06-19T12:26:08Z

[I didn't know that the glute shimmy defined Tribal Fusion...] I'm not going to even attempt to *define* tribal fusion but I'll go out on a limb here and say with confidence that using the glutes is a fundamental concept. One large differentiation between the styles is in how different movements are executed. I think when those concepts are changed, presentation is changed and presentaition is so very important in the world of BD. On workshops...I'll just offer this up. The difference between a class and a workshop is that workshops are condensed mini courses. A workshop Instructor need not be original ( we can't all be innovators) but...a workshop Instructor differs from a general educater in that they either have a specialty or a level of expertise that sets them above and beyond Instructors in the field. The reason is that to condense and effectively teach a workshop, an Instructor must know the material and underlying concepts so well that they can bring it forth in a condensed format for maximum effectiveness and benefit to their students. This is the differenc ebetween showing something learned and actually teaching it to a group of inidviduals. Knowledge alone does not equal teaching skills. While we only know the information that was presented in the original post and have to make assumptions, ...put into a different context it would be utterly outrageous for anyone to attend any workshops or even study intensively with someone ( never mind multiple big names) for a brief period of time and believe themselves effective enough to compensate not just in a classroom format but as an *expert* of sorts which is what a workshop Instructor should be and then reaping a profit off the backs of others. Nope...sorry, the more I think about it, the more tasteless and unprofessional I find it. I have to do a presentation on the Holocaust next month and I shudder to think of anyone attending and then deciding to go teach Holocaust studies because a qualified teacher might not be available in their area....even if there intent was not for profit.

Anne Marie (AM) 2009-06-19T12:26:08Z Afsana http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#dc92a6ef-3aea-427a-be07-b55935347273 2009-06-19T08:49:24Z 2009-06-19T08:49:24Z

Yeah, I agree with you completely. I think it´s a great idea, cause you show the students the different styles. Usually, those students don´t have the money to pay for the big names, so what´s the big deal? The teacher properly acknowledged everything she should have and so it´s up to students to decide. (Actually, I´m going to do something similar this summer, but not as a workshop but as a short course. The students that come to me do not attentd the big name workshop because they´re too hard for them and they´re also not that interested to pay the money. So I want to show them the different styles and stylizations proper to their level.) Also, when you are on a workshop, you often hear "do whatever you want with it". Why else are those workshops for? The important thing is to let the students know, that this or that is not your own idea.

Afsana 2009-06-19T08:49:24Z da Sage http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#9c14ea26-fba2-45d1-a196-e414bbdfd5ea 2009-06-19T06:46:07Z 2009-06-19T06:46:07Z

I didn't know that the glute shimmy defined Tribal Fusion...I thought it had more to do with ATS origins. I've never taken a Tribal Pura workshop, is the glute shimmy part of Carolena's format, too?

da Sage 2009-06-19T06:46:07Z da Sage http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#8ad0baa1-88ba-44fd-b9e9-75da9ffc7b1a 2009-06-19T06:43:43Z 2009-06-19T06:43:43Z

One of the classes is "Aerial Yoga". WTF?

da Sage 2009-06-19T06:43:43Z Rya http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#59d88351-a5f0-495f-bbdf-6eb1f69c29a1 2009-06-19T01:10:07Z 2009-06-19T01:10:07Z

Wow...I just found who you're talking about and the convention. They think a lof themselves don't they? snippet: Aren't there other conventions in the ********? Yes, but this is the only one taught purely by today's professional performers. And other questions and answers that are pretty uncool.

Rya 2009-06-19T01:10:07Z Rya http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#8372bd42-6adb-4929-9b36-74ed4095da0a 2009-06-19T00:49:25Z 2009-06-19T00:49:25Z

The first two teachers should be teaching. lol

Rya 2009-06-19T00:49:25Z Rya http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#2d2abfe7-c565-43cd-b4db-404ce037a133 2009-06-19T00:48:38Z 2009-06-19T00:48:38Z

I thinking teacher combos from a workshop to your class is pushing it. Teacher "A" combo along with your own material is something very different. So, if this teacher had a workshop and used combos from other teachers ALONG WITH HER OWN COMBOS I don't think it would be so distasteful. As it stands, she's making money not off one but several teachers hard work to come up with those combos. She's not integrating what she learned. She's taking pieces of people's hard work, smushing it together and selling it. I don't like it. I also want to point out that a movement is different than a combo. A movement is a hip drop. A combo is various movements wrapped into a 15-30 second time-frame. In other words, 2 hip drops with a kick out to the right on the second one and weight change to right foot could be considered a combo. Or Zoe's lay back, turn head, flip body, could be considered a combo. Just my $.02

Rya 2009-06-19T00:48:38Z Anne Marie (AM) http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#02e7e86e-1453-4fb2-9c62-b04a835f095c 2009-06-19T00:20:36Z 2009-06-19T00:20:36Z

(I would pay extra to not have to learn Suhaila's glute shimmy technique in every flippin' Tribal Fusion workshop. :P ) LOL...but then they would have to change the name of the workshop to Tribaret Fusion. ;)

Anne Marie (AM) 2009-06-19T00:20:36Z Tanya http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#25bffacf-c435-4401-ad19-0dbe1ade9768 2009-06-18T21:48:32Z 2009-06-18T21:48:32Z

I have had teachers, teach moves/combos/techinques in a class that were learned in a workshop. I somehow don't have a problem with that, because they credit the person who taught it to them and incorporate it into a regular class structure. But the way this is set up; a workshop teaching workshop materials from other dancers seems wrong. She is in essence stepping in on what could be lucrative for the dancers in question. Maybe I can't get out to tribal fest to see Mardi Love, but if enough people in my area want her, then she will be sponsored to teach her combinations. The demand could go down for these workshops because someone out there is teaching (what I consider watered down) versions of the same workshops. I would probably stay out of the situation, unless you happen to be friends with some of the dancers mentioned (where as you may just want to foward a link.) Also way, way, way too much name dropping.

Tanya 2009-06-18T21:48:32Z da Sage http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#9776fc55-b38f-4ee2-80ff-057d8f193f32 2009-06-18T21:31:45Z 2009-06-18T21:30:52Z

I would pay extra to not have to learn Suhaila's glute shimmy technique in every flippin' Tribal Fusion workshop. :P About reteaching the combos, I think this happens a lot. I appreciate that she's open and honest about it, though. If it bothers you, you shouldn't take the course. If the originating dancers have beef with it, they should take it up with her. I don't have a serious problem with it, but it's definitely in the grey area.

da Sage 2009-06-18T21:30:52Z Nuria http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#bb45f1c4-9071-4820-9173-dfd3bc69d5ed 2009-06-18T21:28:14Z 2009-06-18T21:28:14Z

I'll take a "consumer's" sight: around here there are numerous: the hottest new Cairo combinations...with our teacher, we learn the "Dina-hip drop" in various ways or some Mona-stylizations. Of course, if I'm interested in a certain style, I'd love best to learn it from the "original", but if I can't go to their classes, maybe I'd attend one of those workshops. It's never going to be the same, still. Actually in a workshop you should be teaching your specialty, your very own signature stuff. But, you may pass on what you've learnt I think, if you don't trick people into believing they are booking a workshop with another way more famous dancer.

Nuria 2009-06-18T21:28:14Z Indigo http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#d2d4cc72-b6ef-49d6-b066-b21670a3d382 2009-06-18T18:03:25Z 2009-06-18T18:03:25Z

To be Honest I think I see it slightly different. She is giving Credit to the Instructors she has taken from and if I were to take Teacher X's wkshp, if I liked one of the instructors named I would jump at the chance to take a workshop from them. People go over to the Middle East and bring back here what they learn and teach it to us at a cost. Many of the great Dancers continue to take classes, mold what they like and teach the movements to the rest of us. While I believe we should take what we learn and mold it in our own personal style then teach it to someone else, I see nothing wrong w/ name dropping... How else are newbies to learn of other Great Dancers? And I truly believe dancing is dancing and movement is movement. If you are bringing something new to a area then it is being introduced. and I believe experiencing something at least once is better than never experiencing the movement. Not all Instructors can teach the same workshop everywhere.... I can see where the weirdness comes into play on the other hand at least people are learning more about dancing.... I could be wrong... but wanted to throw this out....

Indigo 2009-06-18T18:03:25Z Anne Marie (AM) http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#e08d5aa5-84cf-4787-88ec-4cac70384f50 2009-06-18T16:12:07Z 2009-06-18T16:12:07Z

oops...forgot..sorry: Ali...the telephone game I was referring to was not a reference to the sharing of cultural information that is passed down from generation to generation but a tongue and cheek commentary on when one person teaches a concept and then it is passed along for so long without proper training that it because something totally different. Granted no teacher is ever going to match the original or completely master concepts, and... things do inadevertantly change over time but the intent of a teacher should be to nurture and share. The Instructor here sounds like they are doing people a favor. Not only do I seriously question qualifications ( is there any subject in the world that can be taught after a few workshops???) but I question intent.

Anne Marie (AM) 2009-06-18T16:12:07Z Anne Marie (AM) http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#b84ae061-6ae1-4b00-9129-abb4d0b3b980 2009-06-18T15:44:13Z 2009-06-18T15:44:13Z

*I* think there is a difference. First off, I personally feel an ITS class or workshop remiss if not including the origin and fundamental basis of ATS/GC and so forth from which it was derived. Bonus points for those who know and understand some of the origins with Jamilla. ITS is not arbitrary. This is not saying I would be accepting of someone teaching a pure workshop without certification but it has more to do with qualification. But...hopefully, none of the workshop instructors or teachers of general classrooms are claiming to take the place of the creators nor teach their *highlights* from a recent workshop for a workshop in which they are deriving money. As well...certain movements were created by other individuals or as troupe collaboratives. In fact, there was a time ( and this may stil be feasible) that dancers and/or troupes could send in their ideas for potential acceptance in the world of ATS. yes...we all borrow from one another but I think there is a difference between teaching a style and teaching a *name*. We don't have *Carolina* classes nor *RB*...we have ATS and tribal fusion.

Anne Marie (AM) 2009-06-18T15:44:13Z B http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#d28579fd-d35a-459f-9e7c-e76f62d1ba01 2009-06-18T15:30:06Z 2009-06-18T15:30:06Z

it's all a bit too "riding on the coattails of..." for my taste.

B 2009-06-18T15:30:06Z Katrina http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#1dda5d03-bc0b-4b51-b6eb-553f67070361 2009-06-18T14:53:24Z 2009-06-18T14:53:24Z

"But to use several accomplished choreographer's work in an "all these workshops (mostly) for the price of one" imitation feels like an abuse of the privilege of being allowed to use that choreography in the first place" I agree with Ali and I do feel it's shameless namedropping in an attempt to make a name for yourself. But, to play another form of devil's advocate, at least some of the people who sign up for this workshop are bound to think, "If I got all this from a crash course, what might I learn from taking a full course with the big names listed?" "Sort of like if walmart was to sponsor belly dance workshops." LMAO

Katrina 2009-06-18T14:53:24Z Anthea http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#d5557aee-ce4d-4050-a34e-b01b259b185b 2009-06-18T14:35:12Z 2009-06-18T14:35:12Z

Maybe it's time to move beyond "the letter of the law" in business dealings - a "kinder, gentler" business model, to borrow a phrase. Wow! What a concept! I agree the name-dropping is kind of distasteful, but even the outright "learn their stuff from me" isn't illegal (I think). This reminds me of a similar situation in which a dancer took someone's prop idea & became the "go-to" source for learning that prop, because she became more visible (& searchable) with it through dvds & related materials. Prop-originator wasn't as "hooked up" with the bellydance-biz side of things.... get the picture? Nothing illegal there, but at the same time, it makes you wonder about the way things work, doesn' t it? And I wonder if the dancers whose material she's teaching think, "great, free advertising" or "hope she's teaching it right?" or both? Maybe she got the idea from how some American dancers teach Egyptian dancer's moves - but it's kind of different when the dancers whose material she's teaching are right here in this country, and also going around doing workshops!

Anthea 2009-06-18T14:35:12Z Ali http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#8b9d3eaa-5cfc-4dd5-bd94-98da6fa7f289 2009-06-18T14:16:40Z 2009-06-18T14:16:40Z

I don't think it's a matter of simple "moves" or steps. I think it is natural that they be shared. When you think about belly dance's origins as a folk dance that mutated with each culture, I think the "belly dance" telephone concept of sharing movements with one another is inherent in the culture. Sharing movement is completely ethical, especially when you credit the person you learned said move from. I see moves and steps as the raw materials. Choreography is a different matter, because that is somebody's art, somebody who took those raw materials of movements and shaped them into a song. To create beautiful choreography is a master's gift to be respected. I agree with Gibson, that choreography that is learned in workshops can be shared with one's troupe or performed, if you credit the original artist for their art. But to use several accomplished choreographer's work in an "all these workshops (mostly) for the price of one" imitation feels like an abuse of the privilege of being allowed to use that choreography in the first place. Sort of like if walmart was to sponsor belly dance workshops.

Ali 2009-06-18T14:16:40Z Jennifer http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#f7e2b61d-63ac-4187-889d-b7be350e5df0 2009-06-18T13:28:20Z 2009-06-18T13:28:20Z

Something occurred to me this morning. Though I thought Teacher X's workshop was unethical, I've gone to ITS workshops that taught specific ATS moves. In my head, I see ITS moves as more of a set of movements that are related to a style of dance (as opposed to a combo "belonging" to a single dancer), but is it really any different? I think I may be being hypocritical. Yes, no? When does a move go from belonging to a specific dancer to being a move that is part of the general lexicon?

Jennifer 2009-06-18T13:28:20Z GibsonPearl http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#7a4452e2-1940-4ae7-81b6-c13aeea42a7e 2009-06-17T22:50:03Z 2009-06-17T22:48:54Z

My first question would be, does this person have permission from all of these dancers to do this? But if she didn't... I feel really sorry for any student who would fall for this kind of scam. I agree that what someone learns in a workshop is theirs to use for performance, etc. or to share with one's troupe...but to build an entire workshop based on other peoples' work? Not ok in my book. As an instructor I will sometimes teach a distinctive move that I learned elsewhere (for example I will teach Washer Woman, which I learned from Jill P. while in Ultra Gypsy) but to teach someone else's whole combo? That they created for their own workshop which is often their livelihood? I don't agree with this. If I want to learn a combo from Mardi Love or Frederique, I will take a workshop with Mardi Love or Frederique. Not some random dancer who apparently believes she's fully mastered all of these styles (and the technique and nuance that comes with each dancer's own personal style) and has no issue with dropping top names to sell her own workshop. In fact, I wouldn't take this workshop even if she did get permission, because I want to learn from people who bring their own creative spark to their dance and isn't trying to speak for other dancers.

GibsonPearl 2009-06-17T22:48:54Z Anne Marie (AM) http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#b1891750-0f37-442a-9065-7d5a0ba7b2dd 2009-06-17T22:44:16Z 2009-06-17T22:44:16Z

Leaves a bad taste in my mouth too J. Whether legal or not...unless one has studied for a long period of time with each of these individuals and has their permission...yeah...no! Taking a workshop does not make anyone qualified to teach the material. Now I know with choreographies its a 'catch me if you can' game and combos are something people routinely swipe and people get in front of classrooms all the time and decide to show their students what they learned, hence the *telephone game style* belly dancer ( the blue toilet is in the pool...What' that...it was supposed to be " To err is human?" ) but I can't even imagine anyone having the qualifications to pull this off...but, if he/she does...well...sign me up.

Anne Marie (AM) 2009-06-17T22:44:16Z peregrinekt http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#e4f3f51f-5ca7-4042-8499-28ca158ae726 2009-06-17T22:12:33Z 2009-06-17T22:12:33Z

well, at least she's honest about it.

peregrinekt 2009-06-17T22:12:33Z Jennifer http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#32c790cc-d5de-4e79-8e1e-85210cedb14c 2009-06-17T21:10:46Z 2009-06-17T21:10:46Z

Oops. I meant that first line to say, "Are workshops taken with the understanding that you can use the material only for use by you/your troupe in your own choreographies but not make a direct profit off of them by selling them to others?"

Jennifer 2009-06-17T21:10:46Z Jennifer http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#a4b57a2b-f18b-4693-8873-a33d685cc003 2009-06-17T21:08:42Z 2009-06-17T21:08:42Z

Are workshops taken with the understanding that you can use the material for your own use? The difference I'm seeing is that the "big names" she mentions make part of their living off of people paying them to take their workshops. By taking Teacher X's workshop, a dancer might decide she's already learned the material and wouldn't pay the higher rate for the "big name's" workshop. To illustrate, in addition to belly dancing, I'm also a photographer. The client pretty much has the right to do whatever they want with that photo (upload, alter, use on their business cards and fliers, etc.), except for make prints of it, resell it, and make a direct profit off of it. If they want to do that, they have to pay a licensing fee or give me a cut (as per the release they sign). I see the two situations as somewhat similar, but maybe I'm making too much of a stretch?

Jennifer 2009-06-17T21:08:42Z Patricia http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#4df4a3c9-5647-4de8-9d8a-c458b9af0006 2009-06-17T20:49:20Z 2009-06-17T20:49:20Z

To play devil's advocate - why did Teacher X take all those workshops if she can't re-use the material?

Patricia 2009-06-17T20:49:20Z Ali http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#b1df684d-6614-4d6c-bea9-64e159b6f79d 2009-06-17T20:32:05Z 2009-06-17T20:32:05Z

That's an awful lot of name dropping for my taste, personally.

Ali 2009-06-17T20:32:05Z Jennifer http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/7edc0180-2fd4-4b0e-a4d1-4fa4ae159f17#4e83d95a-4200-4fd2-8917-4d306666af16 2009-06-17T20:27:15Z 2009-06-17T20:27:15Z

I recently went to a belly dance convention and one of the workshop teachers (who was also one of the hostesses) was offering a workshop on other dancers’ material. The blurb stated: "Ultimate Belly Dance Combos Are you a fan of Mardi Love? What about Onca, Jillia, Fredireque or Sandra of San Francisco? Haven't had the money or time to travel to the big events like Tribal Fest, Tribal Revolutions, or the Miami Bellydance Convention? Well, here is your chance to learn some of the highlights from workshops taught at those events. [Teacher Name Removed] will teach a 'greatest hits' of combos learned from these expert bellydancers then coach you in ways to combine and deconstruct the combos to use them in your own choreographies." This struck me as unethical. She’s taking other dancers’ workshop lessons and using them for her own profit. But I wondered if there is another side? What do you think? Theft or can you see legitimacy in this? I’m sure she didn't have time to do a lot from each of the dancers listed above, so she didn't teach their entire workshops, and she added a layer by talking about ways to “combine and deconstruct the combos” but the concept still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Thoughts?

Jennifer 2009-06-17T20:27:15Z