Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

topic posted Sun, May 3, 2009 - 6:28 PM by  Shira
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I recently danced in a show in which several of the performers ignored the instructions from the organizers to keep their sets at 10 minutes or less. Some even had sets as long as 20 minutes. A show that was supposed to end at 9:00 didn't even start its second half until 9:00.

I will soon be meeting with the organizers to talk about things they could do to enforce whatever time limit they choose to set for their performers. I have some thoughts on what to suggest, but I'd be interested in hearing what others think as well.

How do YOU enforce whatever time limit you set for performers in the shows you organize?

Do you ask for the music in advance and check how long it is, and refuse to let them swap in something else at the last minute?

Do you have a stage manager with a strong personality who instructs the sound engineer to stop the music promptly when performer has reached the end of the allotted time frame, thereby embarrassing the offender and making him/her walk off stage in silence?

Do you threaten that anybody who exceeds the allotted time will not be invited back to perform in your future shows? If so, do the threats work?

Interested in hearing what works for all of you!
posted by:
Shira
Iowa
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  • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

    Sun, May 3, 2009 - 8:46 PM
    This is a great topic and yes it is an issue.

    I do sponsor an event here 4 times a year. The limit for solos is 5 mins and groups is 8 mins -- would rather have the person/group leave the stage with the crowd wanting more than bored. Part of this issue is that the performer is not 'in tune' with the crowd and obviously does not understand that less really is more!

    So I do ask for the cd in advance and they are contacted if it is too long....they are asked "where would you like us to cut the song". Also....if they do over step and change out a cd that is longer .. then they are not allowed to do it again. In general the second issue of changing out -- is really really rare as we point out that we cannot promise the cd will work or issue will not happen if a cd is switched at teh end. We make a cd of the whole show ... so it is strongly discouraged. Making one cd also helps to ensure that cd malfunctions do not happen...we know the computer we use to burn the show cd works with the system....so it is safe.

    Good topic....it is hard to pull the cane out and let a performer know....show is over. As a sponsor....I really wish that performers understood what we are juggling and how those 'little things' really matter.

    Phoenix
    • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

      Sun, May 3, 2009 - 9:11 PM
      I will post here, even tho I responded on the other forum as well:

      We require program information, tech sheets and music to be submitted at least 2 weeks before the program- this helps us make sure not only that time limits are met, but also that the program editor does not go mad, no one is using the same music, we can arrange the program so we don't have 3 sword routines in a row, etc. & our techies love us :)

      Life is so much easier, but we are still learning & tweaking what we need to ask for in advance.

      & I will add that we put everyone's music on one CD, as well as on our sound technician's laptop (which is where it is usually played from) All the music is nicely equalized this way too- very nice!
      • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

        Mon, May 4, 2009 - 10:51 AM
        Yeah American audiences have short attention spans and anything over 5 min looses them.

        It helps the sound people to have the music in advance on one disc, so if you get the dancers to turn in music a week before the show you can limit the time on the master disc. and remind the dancers of their time limits.

        I know some dancers don't like time limits but ya gotta know what your audience can take in length.
  • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

    Mon, May 4, 2009 - 1:01 PM
    I agree with everything said. Yes, it's important! And yes, getting music in advance is great...and it also prevents people from dancing to the same music.
    • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

      Mon, May 4, 2009 - 2:16 PM
      Same here.. I posted in the other thread about this, but to reiterate.... performers are given a time limit and a deadline to submit their performer info AND music. If the music is over the limit they are asked to re-submit in a timely manner... also in advance of the show. If they don't do so or take their sweet time doing so, they are cut and we move on to the wait list of performers if there is one.

      As was said above, this not only allows for enforcing time limits but it allows the organizers to avoid potential issues such as two dancers with the same music, three slow numbers in a row followed by three drum solos, etc.
      • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

        Tue, May 5, 2009 - 1:37 PM
        One show I was in cuts the music off when dancers go beyond their allotted times slots. They also warn the dancers that if they do not keep to the music lengths their music will be turned off. If you a dancer doesn't like it, they don't have to perform in the show.
  • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

    Tue, May 5, 2009 - 4:45 PM
    I've run into various policies about this, and the one I liked the best was "your music will be gradually faded out once the time limit has passed." This enforces the time limit without bringing the piece to a screeching halt. I think this is best for the audience, because suddenly stopping the music would break the mood and probably make people wonder if that's what was supposed to happen. Fading it out keeps things professional and gives the dancer a chance to make an appropriate exit.
    • Oh, I wish I had thought of that before I tried to edit my song down to 5 minutes for a recent performance.

      9 girls, doing ATS, to a song we all love, but it was 1:40 over the length we were allocated so I trimmed and edited it. Then, since I knew the song the best, am the troupe leader and the teacher, it made sense for me to lead last and figure the ending and was so worried about making sure I ended correctly, I messed up my first song, and don't think I smiled once during either our performances! Never again! What a wreck that made me...I would have been so much happier if I had just had the music fade....

      Lesson learned!
  • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

    Fri, May 8, 2009 - 1:14 PM
    I have only done more hafla events, but basically "Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me" I keep track of who is respectful of the rules and who doesn't. If they sign up to perform again, and I know they broke the rules before, then I would tell them that if they go over again, "like last time", I will fade their music out at the time limit.
    In my experience, most people will respect the limits you set. No reason to go out of your way to police everyone strictly for the few that disrespect the rules.
    • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

      Wed, May 27, 2009 - 2:33 PM
      Getting the music ahead of time is not something that at a bigger show like Tribal Fest is really something that I want to get into.

      If you look at the times, we build in 1, 2, or 3 mins between acts during the week-end as "catch-up" time.

      If someone goes over a minute or so, it's not really a big deal.

      I don't remember anyone going way over the time, but as Shay said, if it happens this year,,,, you better know that we will remember it next year.

      But to be honest, I think that everyone stays pretty close, but building in extar time at your shows helps.

      Don't plan on 10:00 - 10:05 XYZ act and then 10:05 - 10:10 next act.... plan catch up time.

      We watch the clock, if we are ahead, we take breaks, nothing worse than having someone show up to see XYZ act and they have already gone on.

      This happened to Kajira and BlackSheep BellyDance years ago at a festival in Richmond.

      The only ones we are flexable on is the closing headliners...
      • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

        Sun, May 31, 2009 - 8:41 PM
        Yeah...truly. What you do at Tribal Fest is a feat in itself. But I think that I would call what you do more of a "festival" than a "show" per se. I think there are similarities between festivals and shows, but there are differences as well. Regardless of the definitions, I know that Tribal Fest certainly has a reputation of managing the time well. Your tips are absolutely spot-on. Watching the clock and planning on extra time is exactly the thing you need when running an on-going performance stage.
  • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

    Sun, May 10, 2009 - 5:21 PM
    Most shows I've been at, the dancers are respectful of limits up front and it's not an issue.

    When dancing to live music, I've recently seen one dancer who stayed on stage after the song ended, in a pose which implied "hey, there's more!" The band started back up with something else and so did the dancer -- it was obvious that she had to get off the stage, but also obvious that she didn't want to! The band quickly wrapped up after giving her a little extra, and somehow she got the hint.

    Only once a few years ago, I was a performer playing irish whistle and participating in a "Village Scene" at a BD show. One of the performers who was on before us was enjoying her time up there a bit too much (two live musicians and she danced). Seriously.. she went on... and on... and on... they tried giving her hints from the side... I even think the organizer danced onto the stage to give her a clue and dance her off the stage.. no go. Ultimately they faded the lights out on her and once it was black she got the hint.

    OY!
  • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

    Mon, May 11, 2009 - 11:15 PM
    First off, this drives me crazy! Nothing is more unprofessional, in my opinion, than disregarding the rules!
    Here's what I do. I require all the music in ahead of time, to be approved and compiled onto one disk. Thus, I can check the times of the songs. If the songs are to long, I would first take the polite approach and ask if they need help editing the song down to the allotted time. If things get ugly, they get kicked out of the show.
    If things were somehow to progress to the point that they managed to get their music on, I would fade the music out. At least that would give them a little bit of warning, but still get the point across.
    If they get mad, tough!
  • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

    Wed, May 13, 2009 - 3:48 PM
    Something my instructor had us start doing was in order to dance we had to get our music approved and to her the week before the show. This way she could put together the dancer line up and catch any pieces that might be inappropriate or too long. I'm curious to see how different this weekends student recital is from the last one.
  • Re: Show organizers: enforcing time limits?

    Mon, June 1, 2009 - 2:20 PM
    I host a big hafla once a year in my area. I give soloists up to 7 minutes and troupes up to 10 minutes. I've been asked previously if a dancer or group could go over by 1 minute, and that's not usually a problem, rather than cut 3 minutes from their performance due to the inability to use a second song. I've also been allowed an extra minute at big festivals when I've asked for it.

    At my haflas, I ask dancers to submit to me their bio for the program, their introduction to their performance, and the names and times of the songs they are using. That way, I know what's happening and how long each performance is. Also, knowing what music is being used in advance allows me to structure the show so that it is varied, and not the same kind of performance or same song is twice in a row.

    I've never had a performer abuse this and go severely over the time limit at an event I've produced.

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