belly dance statistics

topic posted Fri, September 8, 2006 - 5:56 AM by  Taaj
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement
Does anyone know if there are any belly dance statistics anywhere? Like how many dancers are in the USA? What is the age range? What is the income level of dancers? Etc.

Taaj
www.taaj.org
posted by:
Taaj
Virginia
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • Re: belly dance statistics

    Fri, September 8, 2006 - 8:06 AM
    I'd also like to know how much money is spent every year by BDancers! People sometimes don't look at Belly dancing as a profession....only a hobby. But IT IS A PROFESSION to many people and tons of money is spent on furthering education, costuming, marketing, real estate (studios owning/renting), event planning (workshops etc.) that by having these figures will allow others to show what a force Belly Dancers in the US......
    • Re: belly dance statistics

      Fri, September 8, 2006 - 9:04 AM
      Right, that's why I am asking. I am trying to prove that we are a demographic that is underserved and under targeted as a market.

      So, any statisticians out there up to the task of creating a data base?

      Taaj
      www.taaj.org
      • Re: belly dance statistics

        Fri, September 8, 2006 - 11:35 AM
        Honestly - if we can find a data source I can do the stats and analysis on it or if anyone wants a "belly dancer census" type survey, then we can work together on that. I can write questions and analyze data, but don't have a way to host a survey.

        I'd *love* to do a full analysis on belly dance stats. That would be so cool!
        • Re: belly dance statistics

          Fri, September 8, 2006 - 1:47 PM
          Here's the info I'd like to see:

          how many of us are there?
          how long have they been dancing?
          is it for fun or a business?
          gender?
          age?
          ethnicity?
          income?
          education level?
          $ spent on classes, costumes, etc?
          how much is made on teaching and performing?

          Taaj
          www.taaj.org
          • Re: belly dance statistics

            Sat, September 9, 2006 - 3:58 PM
            Hi Taaj ~

            I'll go first, even though this just gives you information from me, and as Brad points out, won't reach many who don't access the internet or tribe... I have one friend, who I classify as a 'major pro-dancer' who is never on tribe. I would imagine she spends far more than me, since she attends the Mendicino Dance Camp and usually travels every other year to the "homeland".

            This seems to be my average:

            I have between 5 to 12 regular students in my beginning/intermediate class. Most have been dancing with me for around six months to a year, although I have one student that's been with me almost two years now.

            I have been dancing for 26 years, although I did take off about eight years where I only danced once or twice each year, if at all. For the last five or so years, I've been dancing/studying on a regular basis, with classes several times each week.

            I dance because I love it, but yes I'm lucky enough to make some money and support my habit!

            I be a girl.

            I'm 45, but some days I feel like 900.

            I'm a mut, ethnicity-wise, although I'm told there is Turkish in there somewhere. Mostly, English and Scotish.

            My income from dance (and costume sales) seems to average about $3,300.00 or so per year and goes up just a tad each year. This doesn't include the charity events I do, only actual dollars that pass into my mitts. I also have another full time business which allows me the flexibility to devote extra time into dance.

            I have about five years of college, no degree.

            I spend an average of $3,400.00 or so each year on dance related items. This includes gas to gigs, vending fees, costuming, costuming supplies, make-up and hair. I have never broken it down by catagory and this only includes what I actually have receipts for or have remembered to write down right away. I'm sure there is probably at least another $800.00 or so each year that I forget about because of not having a receipt. Usually, I try to write this stuff down when I get home, but sometimes I forget...

            Right now, I make about $100.00 to $200.00 per month teaching and about $150.00 to $200.00 per month performing. I teach a weekly Monday class and dance twice a week. During season, I'll dance more often and more students come back to class when it's cooler here. (I'm in Palm Springs.)

            Hope that prompts others to participate!

            SeylenaTroi
            www.TribalHair.com
  • Re: belly dance statistics

    Fri, September 8, 2006 - 11:48 AM
    a while ago, i spent some time digging, and found ~850 people across the country calling themselves "belly dance teachers" in some capacity or another. i usually estimate 1000 teachers.
  • Re: belly dance statistics

    Fri, September 8, 2006 - 8:05 PM
    Hate to be a Scrooge, but...

    A hosted voluntary questionaire says nothing about belly dancers in general; it only speaks about a select random group that answers internet questionaires. Unless you have some statistical keys (the group sampled represents what percent of the total target population with what particular numerical bias), the numbers generated are really more of a subjective focus group than any sort of legit market research. These kinds of stories are fun but not really useful in understanding the marketplace.

    The biggest existing repositories of market knowledge usually exist (frequently unmined) within the records of the biggest businesses in the space, in the case probably Suhaila and Rakkasah, and since belly dancers are not licensed or registered (they're really only self-identified), real statistics about this community will require serious research muscle (and serious dollars as well). And once mined or purchased, the knowledge is rarely shared publicly (in order to avoid sharing the advantages it provides the sponsor).

    While it would be fascinating to see more empirical data about the community, we should really hope no one ever cares enough to invest in generating this info... 'cause that sort of investment is usually followed by a big corporate interest that tends to muscle out smaller businesses.

    But don't let this stop anyone from undertaking the task.
    • Re: belly dance statistics

      Sat, September 9, 2006 - 6:37 AM
      Hi Brad - not a scrooge at all ;)

      Tis true - all surveys reflect the group that respond more than the whole. I do this for a living, so I am well aware of the limitations of an internet survey of a nebulous community - LOL

      That said, however, it is a fantastic start to find basic information and numbers of belly dancers (always with the caveat that these stats relate to the subset of dancers that chose to respond to the survey) which can be used to do a full initial analysis for a pilot and then be a good foundation for applying for research grants to complete more detailed work. A survey doesn't have to be fully generalizable to the population at large to have great value - if we can show that there are enough belly dancers answering *this* survey to make a worthwhile market, then it will be a short discussion to show that this represents only a select group....therefore making the potential untapped market even larger than what we can illustrate through this survey.

      Any data we can collect is more than what seems to be currently available and will be a valuable tool for the dance community. If we get this off the ground, I plan to write a research piece for American Anthropologist on our findings based on internet community based participation and the online dance community. (I admit having done this sort of thing before ;) In my other life, I am a research anthropologist.)

      Thanks for the input, Brad :) I am thinking of this less as business-funded market research and more as something we can use as a pilot to receive anthro/socio/dance research grants to expand in the future if our results can support it. :)
      • Re: belly dance statistics

        Sat, September 9, 2006 - 11:03 AM
        Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit intended, Mahsati.

        If there's anything I can contribute, don't hesitate to buzz me.
        • Re: belly dance statistics

          Sat, September 9, 2006 - 12:54 PM
          Brad,
          There's a huge difference between reality and scrooge. You have the knowledge, experience and ensuing insight to bring reality to the table. Thank you. :)
        • Re: belly dance statistics

          Sat, September 9, 2006 - 4:07 PM
          I think Brad has a great idea here... what about getting the large events to put out a short voluntary info sheet, with just a few questions on it?? I agree, it would be major work but it would be nice to know. I wonder if MECDA has any information on this???

          I should add, in addition to the information I supplied up top, the other teacher who works with me doesn't belong to any of the associations I do, or very few. She is rarely on tribe and gets most of her work from former contacts. It seems (out here at least) that some dancers really prefer not to use the internet at all because it is somewhat time consuming...
          • Re: belly dance statistics

            Sat, September 9, 2006 - 4:37 PM
            My needs are purely for professional reasons. I'm in public relations and also do communications, marketing and event promotions. I want to raise awareness that dancers are not just hobbiests, they are professional and make a majority of their money dancing and therefore put money back into it and pay taxes.

            Just based on the number of members here (like 2400 or so) that focus on belly dancing as a business, why do people think we dance just for fun. We make money from it, feed our families with it, put gas in the car let alone pay for workshops and classes, pictures, videos.

            Even a bit of information is good, whether statistically correct ---- thanks for bringing me down brad! :-) or not, something is better than nothing. If the ballroom dancers can have this kind of information and have strong organizations, we, as MEDancers should too.

            To spread the word, start the survey here, then each one here takes it to their students, troupe members and to their sponsored workshops. Everyone who participates, gets the results. Then maybe Gilded Serpent will post it and other online magazines as well as those that are printed and mailed.

            I would like to know:
            How much someone spends on classes, workshops and videos.
            How many do professional photos/videos/websites/business cards/mktg materials and how much they spend doing it.
            How many do their marketing from their home office: husband takes photos, they do their own website, print their own cards etc.
            How much is spent on travel: car rental, gas, hotel. (These are all deductible)
            How much they make in a year?
            How much is volunteer


            This type of info is important to me to try to localize or regionalize the results to get sponsorships for dance workshops or shows, and to get others in my community to stand up and understand that it is truely a profession and not just something we do on the weekends.

            The power of this info........What can I do to help? Thanks to Brad and Mahsati for their intelligence.

            Brad, you know I was only joking, right?
            • Re: belly dance statistics

              Sun, September 10, 2006 - 5:30 AM
              Right, you can't do marketing without statistics. Even if it's just raw data, it's more than we have now. And you can always say (and should) that the numbers are not based on a random sampling of the population.

              And while survey can start here, it doesn't have to stay here. Certainly not all dancers are on tribe. Certainly not all dancers are internet savvy. I would want to hear from them too. There is probably valuable information that can be demonstrated in the differences in people on the internet vs. those who are off or dancers from the west coast to east coast or whatever.

              Taaj
              www.taaj.org
        • Re: belly dance statistics

          Mon, September 11, 2006 - 10:16 PM
          proper methodology for something like this is way outside my field, but i know zogby manages fairly reliable political polls via internet with telephone follow-up and some well-crafted normalization... i can't help with all that stuff, but it should be possible to get something useful.

          so long as everyone is clear on the limitations and potential biases, i'm in for whatever we need to make it happen....
  • Re: belly dance statistics

    Sat, September 9, 2006 - 3:42 PM
    Well Brad is right, any true survey on the internet would fail to take into account all those numerous dancers who pioneered the field and most of those are not internet savvy!

    For myself: I started dancing professionally in the early 1980's. At that time I worked approximately 5-6 nights a week. 2-3 shows a night. Not counting the weeks I was on tour. The pay at that time was much less then it is now. I used to do 2 shows for $65 when I was a beginner, then earned $95 as a professional. By the late 90's I earned $100 for one show.


    But I swear, for every dollar I earned, especially in the beginning, I reinvested it back into my dance. I took lessons, bought more costumes, music, pantyhose, nails, makeup, hairpieces, etc. In the 26 years I danced I would say there were probably only 5 years that I turned a profit. And those 5 years all I did to support myself was dance so I took everything and everything. Of course, unlike the dancers today, I did not teach during that time.

    But back in the 80's and and early 90's, it was easy to work several nights a week. I live in the Detroit/Dearborn area which as the highest percentage of Arabs. No one now works more than 3 nights a week. Most dancers work only 1. There are very few opportunities to dance before an American audience.

    Are other cities different?
    • Re: belly dance statistics

      Sun, September 10, 2006 - 7:03 AM
      HI Norma,
      I SO love hearing about Detroit in it's heyday. But it also makes me sad that it is not the same.
      DC is different.The restaurant gigs don't pay so well, but there are enough of those and parties for a couple of us to primarily support ourselves with performing dance. Some dancers perform and teach. Some also vend. A good number of dancers work enough as a side job to make it worth their while.
      I work at 7 different places (some weekly, some I'm on the rotation once or twice a month). I generally perform 4 or 5 nights a week, usually between 7 and 10 shows a week (that's including private parties). Occassionally more. I teach workshops several times a year. I also teach Pilates on the side. I've been teaching fitness and movement of various sorts for over 18 years. I of course still take classes. Workshops are harder to get to (both the timing and the finances), but when I can I love the opportunity. I'm constantly reinvesting; classes, costumes, props, music etc, but I'm also paying my bills with it.
      There are at least 12 places in the area (large DC Metro area) with regular belly dancing. I think it's likely more. It's a strong community. I think we have a couple things that over time have greatly contributed to that: 1) we have long-term (over 30 years experience) AMAZING dancers who also research, travel, teach etc: Artemis Mourat, Laurel Victoria Grey and Yasmin (amongst others). As well as a couple wonderful Egyptian women who specialize in folkloric style: Faten Salama and Azza Mounib. These teachers are all generous with their knowledge and have been training dancers for professional performing for quite some time. and 2) A really large international community including a large Arab community. We have a few different bands, mostly Arabic. A few Turkish musicians as well. There are 3 or 4 places that regularly have bands.
      NYC has some full time performers as well as tons of performer/teachers, vendors etc. I think their music history involves more Turks and Armenians than down here in DC. I'd love to hear more about the other cities.
      • Re: belly dance statistics

        Sun, September 10, 2006 - 2:41 PM
        VENDORS! We can't forget to include questions for vendors. They are important to dancers in a retail sense as well as additional income for dancers.

        Yeah!
      • Re: belly dance statistics

        Sun, September 10, 2006 - 8:48 PM
        my last count had 38 locations in the dc/baltimore area with regular (once a month or more) dancing, 34 once a week or more.
        • Re: belly dance statistics

          Mon, September 11, 2006 - 10:07 AM
          believe it or not, in the Louisville KY MSA, there are only two dedicated belly dance studios! two major workshops a year and lots of dancers fighting each other for the few restaurant gigs around. This MSA does not include Lexington where there is a major dedicated dance studio that has fab teachers and events. The Louisville MSA includes over a million people and includes three counties in southern Indiana. Not many opportunities.
  • Re: belly dance statistics

    Sun, September 10, 2006 - 2:50 PM
    Get some of the Belly Dance publications to send a postage paid mail in study out to all there subscribbers.... or, you could purchase there mailing list ( if they are willing to sell it ) and hire an agency to conduct a study for you...
    this kind of study sounds fascinating..

    Pias
    • Re: belly dance statistics

      Sun, September 10, 2006 - 4:19 PM
      I'm the original publisher of Zaghareet! magazine. I have the mailing list from back then which has been kept up to date because I also sponsor, vend, and do tours. I would be happy to contribute my mailing list for a survey. it's quite extensive.

      Taaj
      thebellydancetrainer.com
      • Re: belly dance statistics

        Sun, September 10, 2006 - 5:08 PM
        I subscribed to Zaghareet once. infact i think i must have a few wripped out articles from past magazines filed away somewhere.....;-) Is it still in publication?

        got me thinking of all these statistics.... i love knowing stuff like this..

  • Re: belly dance statistics

    Sun, September 10, 2006 - 5:01 PM
    Hi my dance name is Nissa. (Real name is Joe) I have been dancing for over 3 years. For me it started out as a fun way to spend my personal time. Then as I became more and more enamored (sp?) with it I began my training for teacher and entertainer. I am a woman (I know, Iknow *YOU'RE a GIRL and YOUR name is JOE! WHAT were your parents thinking!* What ever hippie-bicker people think I guess.), 28 years old and I'm "white" (mutt really). I'm a stay-at-home wife and mommy with 3 children under 10 years old (8-4-1). I did complete some college, but I really wanted to just stay home with my daughter. I have spent around $400.00 in the 3 years for costuming and I have always found free classes. This is the first year wear I get to attend a few workshops in my area. I love the thrift stores and fabric stores. I sew most of my own costumes.
  • Re: belly dance statistics

    Sat, September 16, 2006 - 4:53 PM
    Ok - anyone who wants to help with the variables and question-building, please send me an email to mahsati (at) mahsati-janan.com and I will put together a list of collaborators :)
  • Re: belly dance statistics

    Sat, September 16, 2006 - 6:24 PM
    One statistic to think about - the number of entries in my teacher/performer directory. In the cities where I know something about the local dance scene, I'd estimate that 25% - 33% of the local teachers and performers have listed themselves in my directory. At least, with respect to English-speaking countries. Non-English speaking countries would be a smaller percentage because my web site is in English and those who aren't comfortable with English probably wouldn't spend much time on it. I'd feel reasonably confident for North America taking the number of entries in my directory and multiplying by 3-4.
    • Re: belly dance statistics

      Wed, September 20, 2006 - 6:05 PM
      Shira's on the right track there.
      Look...each major centre usually has some sort of dance association or teachers union. We here in Vancouver Canada have MEDA (middle eastern dance assoc.)
      We have about 225 members for our small area.
      We also have a teachers listing and most of the local teachers use it.

      You can estimate that for every person who is a member of the association it represents about 3 people who are not. (I'm sure its different for each place)
      You can also estimate students per teacher--each teacher has x-amount of classes. Each class has x-amount of students...on average. Then go from there. I'd go state by state--and yes, even Alaska has bellydancers. We're everywhere!
      • Re: belly dance statistics

        Wed, September 20, 2006 - 8:08 PM
        some old work i did in this vein can be found here- www.rojisan.com/dance/2004...nstructors/

        (including a map)
        • Re: belly dance statistics

          Fri, September 22, 2006 - 9:15 AM
          unfortunately, a lot of communities aren't as organized as Vancouver which I understand has an execellent dance and ethnic community! My community has one organization that has about 51 members. Only 10 (and that's a high number) attend regular meetings and they have one major workshop and show every year. Unless the community is strong, it's not as organized. That's why I think we'll have to start from the ground up and rely on responsible people to get the word out to other dancers.
          • Re: belly dance statistics

            Fri, September 22, 2006 - 7:24 PM
            Like many in this community I am very interested in how many people are into bellydance and to what degree in the various catagories. From CD sales of the BDSS series and concert ticket sales I can estimate the base interest In the US is about 100,000 (those that are very to reasonably interested). There are many more who are "mildly" interested. Teachers accross the country tell me that interest is growing steadily with no sign of leveling off. The mainstream is now taking notice and taking the dance more seriously than in the past. The inclusiveness of the dance will enable it to grow even further even if (and maybe because of) greater professionalism coming into the dance at the top level. In a strange way even the greater interest in the Middle East region helps attract interest to the dance. I think we are in for a long period of growth for this art.
            • Re: belly dance statistics

              Sat, September 23, 2006 - 6:00 AM
              I agree. And that is why it is so important to have statistics to back this up. The more we are able to say things like, "Fifty percent of students in recreation center classes take a second class" or "The average belly dance students spends X on classes and costuming" the easier it will be to sell belly dance as mainstream entertainment, find sponsorships, and sell this as a product.

              This really is important. I hope that we can find someone who will fund a grant to do this right, but I am happy with having some grassroots movement in this area anyway.

              Taaj
              www.taaj.org
              • Re: belly dance statistics

                Sat, September 23, 2006 - 4:29 PM
                I've been dancing for over 10 years, and I've noticed a bunch of new forerunners in the dance in my community. New movers and shakers create change and change creates growth (in this case).

                If we can get even basic information published, look at how much more people will start to pay attention. I'm not sure how organized the ball room dancing people are - and I think they've got a head start - but if we can show strength in numbers people will respect the dancers whether hobby or professional even more.
  • I have been helping my daughter grow her business in a very tough market (Louisville KY) for the past three years. That's my entire claim to expertise. Nevertheless, we have strong opinions about a lot of things...!! What we do is keep in mind that most professional artists of any genre have a hard time making ends meet. This keeps us from getting discouraged. And (this is NOT intended to be disrespectful of the list, it is simply a personal choice!) we don't pay much attention to what has been done in the past because most of that, in this area anyway, is traditional MED. The market Ruric is dancing and teaching for is being invented on the fly. Yes, it is scary sometimes. The one statistic we have that might be of use to anyone is that 52% of the people in any audience probably have one hand up so they cannot see the dancing -- conservative Christian area. Daughter wears coin belts a lot so they can at least hear the coins without having to look at her : )

Recent topics in "The Biz of Belly Dance"

Topic Author Replies Last Post
PayPal Is The Devil... Change For Events 1 Yesterday, 8:51 PM
Combined Excise Tax Nicole 3 December 20, 2009
What sources of advertising work for you? Nefabit 11 December 17, 2009
Is tribe dying? Norma 32 December 14, 2009