Tribe.net. Local Connections Velvet Fifi http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#f773a256-7785-4675-b1a2-6412cc9cfb87 2009-08-29T15:13:46Z 2009-08-29T15:13:46Z

"Do people not line up in droves to watch the Alvin Ailey Company or the NYC Ballet dance other people's choreographies? What makes this dance form different?" I would like to point out that these dance companies are either paying for the rights to use the choreographies or the choreos are public domain. I think it is perfectly fine to perform someone else's choreography as long as you have retained the permission of all the appropriate people and done what they have asked you to do (from pay to proper acknowledgment). I don't think it is terribly original in a lot instances (and that leaves a lot of leeway for exceptions to the rule), but it isn't criminal if you have taken the correct steps and secured the rights to do so. It's a gray area depending on circumstances as to why you would choose to do someone else's choreo. My only suggestion is to always start off on the right foot and make sure you have covered all the bases first.

Velvet Fifi 2009-08-29T15:13:46Z Anthea http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#b90c85ed-a122-49d8-92a4-172dc32879dc 2009-08-29T13:29:17Z 2009-08-29T13:29:17Z

ha, Yasmin! strictly speaking you're right but I meant raks sharki - otherwise I'd have to include all the folkloric troupe stuff too -

Anthea 2009-08-29T13:29:17Z Roz http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#ce80c41f-9ad0-4965-8540-664155a8f069 2009-08-29T08:07:43Z 2009-08-29T08:07:43Z

<Sometimes dancing can be just having a good time> Absolutely but I would think dancing just to have a good time is seperate from a performance where people are paying to be entertained. Not paying to see a dancer entertain themselves. ;-) I dunno, it just seems that dancing for my own gratification should be reserved for my own personal time. For the one about not doing someone else's choreography: I interpreted that to mean not to duplicate someone else's performance. I would imagine that if you are taught someone's choreography or learn it off an instructional DVD (_not_ a performance DVD) then I can't imagine where the argument would be. But if I've paid to see one troupe or dance company's show and then go see another one and get the same show, I'm gonna cry foul. I'd imagine a lot of paying audience members would feel the same.

Roz 2009-08-29T08:07:43Z monique http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#3db08c7e-ac49-44fd-a38a-c5c025fbcb44 2009-06-19T19:47:52Z 2009-06-19T19:47:52Z

many groups perform choreographies that were taught to them by another dancer.....now do i really like that? well no caue we already see the adncers doing repeated choreographies over and over...we dont need to see it by another group..its repetitive BUT........i dont think its terrible, lots of groups do it. now if you are a soloist......and you jack someone else's solo...ehh....being a musician myentire life now a dancer, i believe when you take someone else's choreography or let someone else do your routine for you...your not really an artist..your just following orders and you lose creativity points in my book. im doing 2 dances in a few weeks that were choreographed for the troupe by another dancer.....am i big on it? no..but its not my troupe and im such a new dancer i cant really complain. but the author of that sounds a little full of herself

monique 2009-06-19T19:47:52Z viviana http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#76014e97-b9f7-4117-9d6d-3b6ff408375d 2009-06-09T02:30:22Z 2009-06-09T02:30:22Z

I have always thought that a belly dancer is a entertainer not just a dancer. So of course that means your audience having a good time. I feel that is what it is mainly about. But if you as a dancer are not enjoying yourself than I think the audience would pick up on that. Personally I am not that good of an actress.

viviana 2009-06-09T02:30:22Z Todd http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#cf6eed72-9347-4532-a2a4-059b439dafaf 2009-06-08T21:06:56Z 2009-06-08T21:06:56Z

I like this: "A listening performer is a phenomenon like the wave returning to the shore with seashells and other wet gifts after having had all your sand castles swept away. " Music and dance are two-way streets. The performers need to observe what effects the music and dance are having (separately and together), and emphasize what they want. They need to observe whether the music and dance are dissonant or consonant with each other. It would be rare for the dancer to want them to be dissonant, but it may be for humor or artistic reasons. Just rare. But if the performer doesn't know, they are missing a big part of the performance art. This is about having an expanded awareness of self and the audience, and a feeling of "We are do this together" with the dancer, musician and audience. I like none of these: 1) "If you are not certain that you have any worthwhile spiritual message, you are not yet deserving of an audience. " I disagree with that as a premise. WE ALL HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. WE ALL ARE DESERVING OF AN AUDIENCE. I think the author discounts the individual's intrinsic self-worth. I think one person's spiritual message is another person's crass or pretensious expletive. I think what a dancer communicates is her emotions in visual form, and they use their technique, the music, light, space and time to convey that to the audience through their different senses. They also do it energetically, if you'll pardon the "woo". I think the better way to say this is, "Know your message. Believe it is worthwhile, because it is. Know what you are doing and be prepared, then the audience will more likely believe they deserve YOU." 2) "Ask yourself: Do I have something worthwhile to share? If not, get off the stage! " This is an obnoxious way of saying, "Believe in yourself, or your audience won't believe in you." 3) "Dance worth seeing is an intimate moment of communication between human beings on the wings of music." It's the "worth seeing" part that bugs me. All dance can be worth seeing. Whether it is or not is an individual choice, more people or less will agree. Worth is not an objective quality, however, and is not dependent on how many people agree unless you are selling DVDs or CD's and then "worth" is being judged on a monetary standard. The author is not using money as a standard of worth here. 3) "I urge you not to waste your audience’s time with recitation of someone else’s creation—create your own dance. Say something unique. Share with your audience your understanding of the music, but considering more deeply; share your understanding of the human condition by using your sense of the dramatic. Make people laugh. Make them cry. Show them some passion. Cause them to remember you! Begin by sending chills up your own spine and learn to send that energy toward your audience. You will quickly learn not only how, but how much, and for how long you must accomplish this feat before moving on...." This is good advice, but it is just as easy or difficult as playing someone else's musical composition. Fine, do someone else's choreography, but when you do it, realize it is your own creation. Make it yours by your own interpretation (with acknowledgement to the author, of course.)

Todd 2009-06-08T21:06:56Z Devi http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#a49326f4-8de7-4414-aae0-0a483acd1c20 2009-05-31T22:36:53Z 2009-05-31T22:36:53Z

I love the comment "Dance worth seeing is an intimate moment of communication between human beings on the wings of music." I agree with not dancing someone else's choreography.. it just does not come from the heart and it is like passing something fake off to your audience. Take your audience on a journey and they will be grateful - even if they are family =-)

Devi 2009-05-31T22:36:53Z Yasmin http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#5d01bf8b-bf9f-4c34-9a8b-1f0c6857bf24 2009-05-28T03:20:40Z 2009-05-28T03:20:40Z

What about your Persian # on lifting the Veil of Time ;) ?

Yasmin 2009-05-28T03:20:40Z Adel, M.C. http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#9567b871-299d-491c-9fd3-33f493c3824f 2009-05-21T03:41:36Z 2009-05-21T03:41:36Z

What a great article! Najia Marlyz actually applies her own advice to the actual writing of the artice making it a genuine pleasure to read every word. In particular, these words resonated well with me: "Say something unique. Share with your audience your understanding of the music, but considering more deeply; share your understanding of the human condition by using your sense of the dramatic. Make people laugh. Make them cry. Show them some passion. " (Najia Marlyz) Thanks for posting this article Samira.

Adel, M.C. 2009-05-21T03:41:36Z S http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#5eaf6f7a-0ee8-448a-b998-5586395c8157 2009-05-19T03:59:18Z 2009-05-19T03:59:18Z

I believe that sharing joy in the music IS a deep, meaningful message! Rotate the glass for a different perspective..... any emotion has value, any shared emotion is amplified.

S 2009-05-19T03:59:18Z "Shay" http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#e0295d06-4ef9-45ee-8f42-5e7e095cbf97 2009-05-08T20:12:11Z 2009-05-08T20:12:11Z

I think what Viviana is saying (and if so, I agree) is that we don't always have to have some deep meaningful message on the stage. Sometimes my goal when I go dance is not to convey some spiritual truth about myself or the world, but just to entertain--just to have fun and carry everyone along with me. I don't think she meant have fun at the expense of the audience's entertainment or despite boring them to death. Public masturbation is one thing, but playfully enjoying a performance as well as sharing that with the audience and helping them have fun too is the goal.

"Shay" 2009-05-08T20:12:11Z Shira http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#ab94858d-9f0c-4043-a782-b94d6de19c74 2009-05-07T15:15:30Z 2009-05-07T15:15:30Z

Hi Viviana! I have a question about what you said. When you said, "Sometimes dancing can be just having a good time," who exactly did you mean should be having the good time? The dancer having a good time just for her own joy? Or the dancer CREATING entertainment for an audience? I think if the dancing is just about the DANCER having a good time, then she should do it at home. Or, if it's a troupe, they should do it in their studio. Or, do it on the dance floor of a place where there is no expectation that the other people around will sit still and give the dancer their full attention, such as a nightclub dance floor when lots of other people are also up dancing just for fun. However, if what you meant is that the "having a good time" is being done by the AUDIENCE, then yes, I completely agree that there are many belly dance performances whose primary purpose is just to offer light-hearted entertainment - birthday parties, etc. In those situations, the dancer may be getting audience members up to dance with her, posing for pictures with the guest of honor, and doing other things to help all the party-goers have fun. People in those environments aren't looking for high art, they're looking for memories that will make them smile, and I love the fact that we have the power to bring those smiles and memories into their lives!

Shira 2009-05-07T15:15:30Z viviana http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#687e6852-b050-4356-89f9-c37e81767380 2009-05-06T23:43:31Z 2009-05-06T23:43:31Z

I find the " if you don't have something to say then get off the stage" comment a little harsh. Sometimes dancing can be just having a good time. And if you include your audience in that good time, I feel they will enjoy your performance. But I don't think every performance has to be something profound. But I do agree that performing is not just about you. Your audience should always be considered in a performance. I get bored real quickly if the dancer seems to be dancing in a vacum with no expression on her face. Maybe that is what she means by having something to say. But I would rephrase it to "Let me see what your personality is"

viviana 2009-05-06T23:43:31Z Tanya http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#945f57dc-2921-4684-a152-7373323a54a3 2009-05-06T17:56:07Z 2009-05-06T17:56:07Z

I wonder if she means this only to pertain to MED and other forms of BD. I have and will continue to perform other people's choreography in other dance forms and I see nothing wrong with performing a piece that has been choreographed for you, or if the choreographer asks you to perform it for them. Do people not line up in droves to watch the Alvin Ailey Company or the NYC Ballet dance other people's choreographies? What makes this dance form different? I understand the need of interpretation of music and musicality, but unless one is performaning straight improv this nuance tends to get lost in the steps. I would have liked to see her talk about stage face. It is all well and good to perform in an intimate setting where one can catch the nuance of an eyebrow or the glimmer of a smile, but stage performance removes the dancer from their audience and as such a dancer MUST EMOTE LOUDER in order to be seen (or heard as it were.) I recently sat through 3 days of stage performances and you could tell who was comfortable and ready for the stage based more on their face then their dancing. Something about dancer face takes it to the next level. I don't want burlesque levels of good face or face that feels put upon but if you're feeling it while you're dancing it, show it to me. I do like that the emphasis is off the costume. I can't tell you how many performances where someone comes out in a breath taking, stunning, drop dead gorgeous costume and I completely forget that there's a dancer wearing it. You should wear the costume, don't let the costume wear you, and if you're costume is going to take a little while to soak in, pace yourself and give your audience time to digest what you're wearing before you show them what you're going to do with it.

Tanya 2009-05-06T17:56:07Z Anthea http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#036274c6-1486-4fe8-bb92-64c5d2399491 2009-05-06T14:43:29Z 2009-05-06T14:43:29Z

I liked that article so much I included it as Web Pick in May's student newsletter. I find the "dont' do other's choreography" a little extreme, but I can see that for a professional soloist - of course we have to do that with students. I've only performed other people's choreography twice in my life, when doing a solo - so maybe I'm a little extreme myself! One was my teacher's drum solo (a Bedia drum solo is fabulous!!!), the other was DC's Amira Yasmin's oriental number. Yay to Amira Yasmin! Otherwise I pretty much agree with it all -

Anthea 2009-05-06T14:43:29Z Samira http://bellydancebiz.tribe.net/thread/68cbb8a8-d146-4427-9092-dd7fd242aa8b#9baf19e3-9210-4d67-938d-e30b83fa77e7 2009-05-06T03:45:21Z 2009-05-06T03:45:21Z

Article, The Quintessential Performer by Najia Marlyz on the Gilded Serpent. http://www.gildedserpent.com/cms/2009/05/03/najiaquintperformer/ What do you like from the article? Why? What do you disagree with in the article? Why?

Samira 2009-05-06T03:45:21Z