Just about every theatrical event I have attended does not allow photography or video recording by unauthorized people. Most theaters also have signs to this effect. I don't see how this is any different. Besides being liable for unauthorized images of performers, some of whom have a no photo policy in their contracts, producers can be held liable for unauthorized use of music that may end up in those videos. I also don't see a problem with offering exclusivity to skilled photographers and videographers who are making their living off the HARD WORK they put into recording these events well. It doesn't sound like they are banning pictures/taping of off stage events. I think this policy sounds reasonable.

If Aunt Jane went to see you perform with the New York City Ballet she'd probably not dream of whipping our her iphone or little video during the performance, and she sure as heck better not try and post it on You Tube.

I am sure you can think of the reasons if you move it into another context.

First: Amateur videographers are no more qualified to do a good job videographing a great dance than amateur dancers are qualified to perform it. When the amateurs then upload their off-the-cuff efforts to the Internet it is often to the detriment of the dancers' reputations. Crotch shots, tunnel vision, unsynchronized music -and- video, focus on the wrong thing, inappropriate special effects, lousy lighting, cutting back and forth and not allowing the narrative to unfold .... Aunt Jane has, without so much as a by-your-leave, added herself to the performance. She might as well just have gotten on stage in her underwear and a Sesame mask. The performance that was seen in the flesh by hundreds will now be seen in the worst possible light by thousands. THanks, Auntie!

Second: There's nothing wrong with deciding to make money from your event's DVD. Some workshop sponsors have told me that the DVD sales are what pulls them out of the red. How does this make them Nazis?

Third: Some choreographers would prefer that their choreographies not become public domain before they have a chance to earn a little fame and money from them. Ditto the costumers.

My thoughts. You are welcome.

"Now, I DO see their point about 'protecting the performers' from having their images 'stolen'......but it is REALLY their "JOB" to do that?"

Yes.

"I mean, this 'rule' makes it clear that if your Aunt Jane comes to see you dance, and maybe you haven't communicated with her about this rule, and she happens to end up shooting you with her iphone......SHE might be REMOVED from the event while you're performing!"

Well, Aunt Jane is an idiot if she think it's OK to tape your performance in a venue she hasn't done the contracting for herself, or been told it's OK to tape in. If it's a real theater/dance/music performance, she should assume that there are rules about whether or not she can take video. The exception is open-air performances in a public place (like a park).

"And has anyone ever REALLY had issues with their performance being 'stolen' and placed on youtube ? "

Video was taken and placed on youtube without my permission, yes. Because I was in a restaurant that I didn't control the contracting for, I really can't complain, even though I'd rather the footage were removed.

I'm sorry Desiree, I must disagree with your assertion that this policy is somehow wrong.

Please...leave the videotaping and photography to the professionals. Most are artists just like you, trying to make a living (or a least be able to maintain their valuable equipment). Calling it a nazi policy is quite rude and it is disturbing that you feel this way.

Besides, if Aunt Jane really came to see you dance, then she should be watching you dance...not sticking an iphone with a tiny screen in front of her face for the entire performance.

Okay - I'll be the loan voice of dissension here (but only on one particular point)

It pisses me off when I am not allowed to have MY OWN performance video taped with MY OWN video camera. It sucks to have to shell out $35 + (usually) and wait (sometimes upwards of 6 months) to get to critique my own performance. I can't tell you how many times by the time I got the DVD I was no longer interested in seeing my work. When I've expressed that to some event producers, I've been told 'Oh, I'll send you the footage of just you' I can count on no hands how many times that actually came to pass.

Case in point, my troupe has back-to-back weekend performances of the same piece. We were lucky enough to be able to shoot the first performance so we got real time feedback and were able to tweak the performance for the up-coming one on Saturday.

I have a solution, but it would probably be a pain in the arse to arrange - it would be a 'shooting area' where a dancer could have her own camera set up. Dancer designates a person to go turn on & off the camera and as soon as the performance is over the camera gets packed up. Not every dancer would take advantage of that, but it is at least a stab at a compromise.

I am totally cool with this. I think that dancers have a right to privacy. I think that event sponsors have a right to protect their income stream by making the video available only through them. I think that people who aren't aware of these things and don't consider that before posting videos of other people should be told so that they can make an informed decision. I am not saying that someone should be the video police. I am just suggesting that people should respect the privacy and copyright rights of others.

Taaj
www.taaj.org

Some folks here have mentioned the idea of protecting the professional photographers/videographers from competition by family members. While I don't claim to speak for everyone, I can say definitively that as a professional photographer I have absolutely no issue with other people shooting the same show, amateur or professional. I have confidence that my product will be significantly unique enough to have value on its own merits and doesn't require the protection of a monopoly. If it doesn't, what's the point of me shooting and forcing my unwanted product on others? In fact, when I produce my own events (which I always try to shoot as well, thanks to my unbelievably strong show staff) I always invite the other professional photographers I know to also come shoot as well. It just gives more value to the performers and promotion to the event.

I understand that some performers may not want to be photographed and have respectfully put my camera down (which is actually a nice respite during a long event) whenever that is announced, but others have mentioned the performers' right to privacy. Essentially, once you willingly decide to perform on a stage in a public setting, you have no right to privacy. You have limited rights to controlling your image (such as in the case of implied endorsement or fictional representation) but no right to privacy.

May I offer what we do at Wiggles of the West Belly Dance Competition as far as videos. We have done it over the last few years and it has worked very well.

We shoot a video for our archive, so we get to see the competition at some point in time. We also have a record, if there is a dispute of some kind. There is nothing like being able to show someone that something did not happen as they 'remembered' it. Thankfully this almost never happens. We NO LONGER sell these tapes.

Each dancer or troupe is allowed to assign ONE person to video tape their performance. The dancers have to sign a form, the form is then presented to the video monitor (who is doing our archive video). It is usually on some brightly colored paper so we can see it from across the room. The person tapes from our taping area only. They are allowed to tape only that performance. The dancer gets real time video and we do not have to make a bunch of copies.

People doing unauthorized video with cameras or phones can be asked to leave ... and will be. And since we are in a casino, we can even ask security to escort the offender of property, if they try to cause a scene. Let me add, we have NEVER had to do that.

This year we are going to not allow flash photography either. We do have an authorized photographer who will be taking photographs which you can purchased from the official photographer.

I see everyone's point...it sucks paying through the nose for bad/incomplete footage. It also sucks when unprofessional photographers/videographers interfere with the Official Videotape. I have heard videographers complain about the flash of cameras and the glow of cell phone/cam screens unbalancing the light values of their footage.

As an audience member, I am sometimes distracted and annoyed when the person in front of me holds up a bright/loud cam. Some people take video discreetly with respect to those around them, but others don't, and are disruptive.

While watching the US presidential inauguration, a good portion of the dignitaries on/near the podium were using cellphones and cameras as President Obama was being sworn in. Holy crap, didn't they know that it was being recorded for posterity at a much better angle than any of them could get? It was ridiculous to see. Not everything needs to be recorded on a personal device. Sit down and *watch*, already!

This is a tough subject - I sponsor an event here in Colorado 4 times a year.

I can only speak for myself - and am not trying to make money off of photos or video. I do set up my camera at the sound booth which has the best angle for the WHOLE stage (no foot or torso shots - just the whole stage and whatever happens on it). I hit record and let it roll -- I offer it to the performers ONLY for my cost and time - a huge $5. My goal is to give each performer a record of the show for their own personal use and keep it cheap as the video is not perfect -- the stage lights often wash out people who wear white and it is not a nice camera. I do not care if a troupe/performer has someone video them but they are only allowed to video those who they have formally asked if it is okay. They are not allowed to video the whole performance.
I think that is not good to record a performance of someone if you have not made sure it is okay ... gotten their permission. I recently went to a small event where my student performance troupe performed two of my choreographies and some girls did solos. I found that all posted on youtube later.....none of the girls knew they were recorded and the person did not even take the time to credit the girls dancing with a troupe name it was "performer 1, performer 2....". I mean really at least ask for a name and say "Hey i am going to post you on youtube". I commented on her posting with their name and my contact info hoping she will get the point being made.

I do have a professional photographer and do ask that others are not taking photos for a couple of reasons. His set up is not bright flashes so it is not so distracting. He is also discrete so he is not standing in others way of seeing. He offers them at a super cheap price for prophotos with the idea that a few will buy. I have seen many come in and snap shots of a bunch of people and then post them...I do not think they mean any harm but really should contact the group before posting to make sure it okay. Also....we announce it but people still snap photography. I am not militant but would just ask them nicely to not do that......per the announcement ...although I usually am busy and have no idea until I am on the stage and see flashes.

It is true that many pro video/photographers will ask to be the only one filming/shooting so that they make their money. If the sponsor will not do that then they may ask the sponsor to put down 200-300 out of pocket to assure they get paid. So some may actually ask that so that there is a nice recording of the event ---- and not break their bank. I do struggle with paying more than $20 for my video at shows unless I know it is really quality lighting and such. I have paid $25 or 30 and then --- exactly what some have listed here -- foot shot or my face while I am doing a beautiful backbend (uhhhhh yeah). My personal goal is to offer something cheap so that those that do not have a camera can also get a copy.....but I only limit due to permission from dancers (only shoot yourself) and to help the photographer keep his rates cheap. I know my shows are not as formal so really I am not that formal.....but it would be nice for family and friends to understand that really they should only be photographing and videoing the people they have permission to....or at least ask before posting.

It did bother me to see this girl post my girls dancing -- and not even take the time to credit them with their names...........she enjoyed them but did not feel it was important to say who they are....really.

So I understand both sides I guess....I would not kick anyone out though unless I asked someone to stop and they would not......but I doubt that would happen.

I don't know much regarding the legal issues of it all.

I have been to very few shows where the $35 you pay is for the whole show. That $35.00 is for all 5-10 minutes of JUST YOUR performance. That kind of sucks after you have spent all that money on travel, food, etc....

That's really minor compared to my other concern though. So, the LONE videographer (sp?) is the only person allowed to record your performance. What if he messes it up? I have witnessed this first hand. My instructor was performing and the videographer was actually so into it, he forgot to track her with the camera. There was actually a period where she was just COMPLETELY OFF SCREEN. (Now this guy was actually really cool and gave her a copy of her DVD for free, but not everyone are such ethical business people).

So what then?!?!? The videographer screws up and your performance is just LOST FOREVER because no one else is allowed to record it.?!??! That's what would upset me the most.

I agree with the idea of having an area designated personal recording. My rough idea is this: Prior to performing during dancer check in, the dancer could list a person to record their performance. Then there could be a list kept at the area and the person recording can check in with an ID to record that dancer's performance. (This will hopefully keep it honest as far as recording other people's performances goes).

Legalities aside, how does your gut feel when you see the following comment under a You-Tube of you and/or your troupe performing an original choreography:

'Love the costumes, love the choreography, does anyone know the name of this song?'

Assuming that you are in the Biz of Belly Dance tribe because you are in the BUSINESS of belly dance... what does this comment indicate that the poster is thinking of doing?

I know I've responded probably too much recently, but I just had to throw this in there- went to a recent concert & it annoyed the bajeebers out of me having the folks in front of me snapping photos. There was a no flash photography policy, but photography in general was allowed. I am already dealing with being short- would ya just let me watch the darn show? just about ruined an otherwise lovely evening.

The dance studio where my kids take lessons allow photography during dress rehearsal but not during the show. I think this is a great compromise if it is an option (I know a lot of BD shows don't have a dress rehearsal...)

I know that recently I pissed off a dancer hosting a hafla by video taping myself. Let me say that when I signed up that they did not let me know that this was their policy.
But afterwards I decided that if that is their policy I just won't dance at their events. I use to live in the city where I performed all the time so I was not inclined to take video of myself dancing. I also was a paid professional.
Now I live in a small town where there are no venues for a profesional dancer. So I drive a hour to the nearest populated area to dance at a hafla occasionally. For me the reward besides having somewhere to perform, is to be able to have video to critique myself and to share with friends.
And when in the city I danced at resturants & I got filmed. It did not bother me. I think that if my dance is not good enough to be posted somewhere then maybe I should not be a professional dancer.
Granted I am not a big name dancer. Where people are willilng to pay for a DVD to see me dance.
I can't even make money off my own image I doubt someone else will.

I have danced at events where there was no video taping, and I did not mind. Because these were big events or competitions and helped get my name out there.
So having once been in the city and now living in a rural area.
I can say this policy I feel would depend on the area you live in & the event you are dancing in. And you don't have to dance at these event if you don't agree with the policy.

And yea I have asked for names of songs. Because I like the song and would like to purchase it. Or because I have the song but the Cd is written in Arabic and I cant read what the name is.