Glancing over some of the threads on this tribe, I'm just curious as to what the fee would be if I were to approach a music label or musicians to properly use their music for performance? What is the process to approach a musician or label?

Just curious...
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  • Just FYI...unless the musician published the music themselves, it doesn't really matter if they give you written permission. You need to also talk to the publishing company and look into the licenses. The laws are probably a little different, but I work in tv and we have outside producers who try to use music by bands who apparently gave their permission...but that doesn't take into account the publishers or licensing.

    As for the fees...it depends greatly on who the musician is, what song it is, etc.
    • Exactly!

      I find the fee is usually around $15-$30 per song/ per show (indie artist) - and when we are lucky, free, but with info about the artist in the program. depending on if the musician is signed with someone or has kept the rights to their music, it can vary - but you'll need to find out.
      If it is a 1-time event (hafla, recital...)- it is still covered by ASCAP/BMI, which you need to already be registered with and paying a fee, along with turning in a playlist.
      private events are not regulated (weddings, private parties) as I understand it.
      workshops and classes are regulated by ASCAP/BMI, and that is a seperate license and quarterly fee (along with your playlist and # of students)

      Hope this helps.
  • So at the lowest, ~$30 (or free if independent or artist still has music rights)...for workshops, shows, and performances including hafla's excluding private gigs...and you need to receive a license even to do that...how is this possible to accomplish for the working belly dancer? Is it feasible? How many dancers out there adhere to this practice? Also, what about international musicians? What are the laws that regulate how to go about using music from artists signed onto an Arabic label or other international label? Do you stick with the laws of that country? How about when live musicians play the songs of another artist for dancers to perform to, what happens then?

    Sorry about so many questions...just curious as to who does what, who strives for ethical practices, and how realistic that can actually be...
    • I have been told that it is generally the venue's responsibility to pay bmi/ascap for restaurant etc. type gigs, and that private parties don't apply. When I tried to find out about license for using music while teaching, every studio owner I asked said not to worry about it and bmi didn't respond to my phone calls. so- I still get permission from artists for songs if I can, and I try to support artists by selling (included in registration fees) the cds we use in class, but that's all I have the energy to worry about.

      I have no idea about the actual legality of any of this, but I figure I have made a good faith effort to do my part and just hope for the best!
      • As a former studio owner, we paid fees annually to ASCAP, BMI, and...one other...can't remember the name. This actually covered all music during lessons, recitals, and public professional performances and covered all employees of the studio as well.
        • thank you, Samira- good to know- I will try to get hold of folks again. I really do want to do things above board! it's really nice that annual fees cover the whole scope of studio activity- do you remember aprox. what the annual fees were?
          • My ex said that the price per year depends on the size of your operation. For example, the number of students taught each week.

            For the Arthur Murray Studios that my ex still owns, he pays roughly $100 per liscencing company per studio. He pays SESAC, BMI, and ASCAP. So he is paying approximately $600/year for both studios.

            Each company represents different segments of music, so the studio has to pay all three of them annually.

            This covers all activities that are through the studio. When we booked theater space, the liscence covered the requirements for the theater as well.

            Hope that helps...
            • Question is what are you doing with the music and where. There are two basic elements to each song 1. the composer of the music who may or may not be the performenr of the music (this is called publishing) and ASCAP, BMI, SESAC in the US and the various societies around the world collect for their composers though totally an imperfect system because its just too costly and time consuming to be accurate about every song played everywhere. Publishers in the US and some other countries collect for these rights when they appear on TV or film or on a CD getting paid directly from whoever is using the song. ASCAP, BMI And Sesac collect when they are on radio, in concert venues etc. 2. the second element is the actual recording of the song, the singer/musicians. Two completly different rights. If you want to use a song on a video you have to clear BOTH rights. If you want to record a song for a CD you can do so but have to pay the standard rate at the time to the publisher who owns the composition (the publisher could also be the person who wrote the song if they did not do a publishing deal) but you do not have to pay anything up front as the system is standardized. You are supposed to get a liscence (even though free) but in practice it is a formality and most dont bother and just pay the appropriate royalty. Harry Fox is one of the organizations that collects for these rights. You do have to get permission if you want to change the lyrics. for AUDIO only use you pay nothing to the people who recorded the origional version of the song (unless they happen to have composed it also but then you pay them as a composer and NOT as a musician)
              If anybody wants to use any of the songs or music my company owns and licenses we judge the payments necessary on a formula that takes into consideration the sale price of the product, the number of songs on it, and how many are sold. If we charge too much people will not use our music, if we charge too little we deprive our artists of a just compensation for their work. We encourage people to use our music as that will generate income for our composers and artists as well as our company. Our music for bellydance includes Beats Antique, Pentaphobe, Galactic Caravan, Issam Houshan, Turbo Tabala, Saad Al Soghrier, Ameina, Oojami, Waroud, Hoda, Mohammad Al Hasan Abo Abid, Ahmed Qwala who are all artists who we represent both for recording and publishing. We are open for business.
    • For the independent artists who maintain all rights, it may be free if they agree to it. I am sure someone will post something to the contrary, but my understanding for international musicians is that there are reciprocal agreements between the USA and wherever. For instance on our last CD we went through the Harry Fox Agency to get the rights to songs that were still copyright protected. This is a different dynamic since we did covers of songs, not the original recordings. It gets confusing and expensive if you try to go through MESAM, SACEM and SACERAU directly.

      SACERAU wanted on average a $1000 a song for us to do a cover version, same for MESAM. Harry Fox handled it for about a tenth for the same songs. Copyrights last either 60 to 75 years after the death of the composer. This means, for example, anything written by Mohammed Abdel Wahab is protected until about 2060; songs such as Aziza, Inta Oumri, and about 2000 other pieces that he wrote. Public performance is different than private use according to several attorneys we spoke with. My understanding is that one well-known artist living here charges by the minute for the use of his recordings in video and that charge is $500 per minute. Don't know what he charges for public performance.
  • I have been most particular about getting rights to music for my instructional videos--in those cases, I wrote/emailed the publishers of the music asking for permission to use the music. The nice thing with belly dance music is that it is often on indie labels who are way more flexible at letting you use their artist's music than the big record companies (I tried to use a song that ultimately was off a Sony label...fuggetaboutit...they red-taped me to death!). I've found that companies like ARC will often let you use the music gratis, but may specifiy which artists you can use (for example, Hossam Ramzy's music would require a royalty, but other less well known artists might not). The EAOD who produces the Wash Ya Wash CDs is super dancer friendly. I agree with the previous dancer who said there is only so much you can do for in-studio use, small performances. There would certainly be no sense in trying to dance if you had to pay royalties on every song you've ever played!
  • Wow, how do you find such cheap rates?

    We have paid $120.00 for one song and been told up to $1500.00 for another song selection.

    I will say that both have been for video production and the artist would have their name and info on the product.

    Only been told "for free" when I have had a long term relationship with the musicians

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